what you need to know before buying a karma today

9299 Views 27 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Fabulist, Sep 3, 2013

FISCALI

Discussion Starter · Aug 31, 2013 (Edited)

new member first post

so take it easy on me .. I fell in love :heart: with the KARMA I cant get it out of my head specially the white ones
I spent time reading researching this forum and calling visiting dealers ( speaking to their technicians ) Google etc..
I came to this conclusion ,,,
if I'm buying karma today I may end up with bricked car because :

1- cooling fan what can cause fire ( some technician I spoke to they thing some of the cars still have fan problems low vin#)

2-HV Battery not all replaced and even if they replaced they end up with A123 , B456 OR Korean version so either way you will end up with bricked car THERE IS NO GOOD Battery in karmas world
is every single car out there high or low vin will have bad battery?
3- RDM, MOTOR ,TRACTION this the only one mostly every one agree was fixed properly in later vin#s but no ones know which vin# start from
the GREEN DOT Good indicator but some replaced same time frame with no Green DOT ( assuming its better design hardening splines etc..) does that mean no green circle don't buy?
4- Muffler this also almost every one agree fixed ( THE PIZZA SOLUTION)

so the only serious problem will brick your karma the HV BATTERY No one for sure can guarantee there was reliable fix ...

What you consider low , HIGH VIN#S ?
LOW start from CA00001 TO ---------?
High good vin#s start from----------? to CA2700

this Laguna with highest vi I ever seen does it mean its problem free ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Othe...pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item41766afc6c&vxp=mtr

thank you
MATT

SMOOTH, LORmAX, HARLEYGUY , 8AVGMPG

THANK U ALL wonderful job helping other people never seen that dedication anywhere..
how do you guys get paid??? lol

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dennis

· #2 · Aug 31, 2013

FISCALI said:
if I'm buying karma today I may end up with bricked car because :

1- cooling fan what can cause fire ( some technician I spoke to they thing some of the cars still have fan problems low vin#)

2-HV Battery not all replaced and even if they replaced they end up with A123 , B456 OR Korean version so either way you will end up with bricked car THERE IS NO GOOD Battery in karmas world

I believe you have drawn the wrong conclusion on at least these two, and possibly the rest:

1) Fisker initiated an NHTSA recall on the cooling fan issue. This means that every owner was notified and the dealerships were proactive in contacting customers since they got paid for warranty work. There have only been 2 Karma fires EVER and none since the fan recall.

2) There was an identified manufacturing defect with A123 batteries produced in Michigan during a specified timeframe. Those are the bad batteries. It is true that not all of them have been replaced, so you need to make sure that any Karma you purchase does not still have a suspect battery. Also there are several individuals/Fisker service centers that are successfully doing repairs of failed battery modules and failed on-board chargers. So you statement that you will end up with a bricked car and that there is no good battery is not true.

FISCALI

Discussion Starter · #3 · Aug 31, 2013

dennis said:
I believe you have drawn the wrong conclusion on at least these two, and possibly the rest:

1) Fisker initiated an NHTSA recall on the cooling fan issue. This means that every owner was notified and the dealerships were proactive in contacting customers since they got paid for warranty work. There have only been 2 Karma fires EVER and none since the fan recall.

2) There was an identified manufacturing defect with A123 batteries produced in Michigan during a specified timeframe. Those are the bad batteries. It is true that not all of them have been replaced, so you need to make sure that any Karma you purchase does not still have a suspect battery. Also there are several individuals/Fisker service centers that are successfully doing repairs of failed battery modules and failed on-board chargers. So you statement that you will end up with a bricked car and that there is no good battery is not true.

thank you for clarifying the fan issue .. so we are down to the battery only

1-other than bad batch in Michigan all batteries produced by A123 ARE GOOD ?
2-by checking the vin history will show the suspected battery?
3-can you by test drive the car on stealth only can you tell if the battery ok or not?
4-if the battery bad can you still drive on gas ?

8AVGMPG

· #4 · Aug 31, 2013

If I were you I would just buy Dennis' car and not worry about any of that stuff.

http://www.fiskerbuzz.com/forums/23...ecosport-shadow-canyon-tritone.html#post94986

flying dutchman

· #5 · Aug 31, 2013

I can only help you with :
3- I had a battery problem: From about 20 kms charge left, it would drop to zero in a few secs. I understand that other people with battery problems could not charge it to the full 80 kms. Both can be tested in a test charge & drive.

4- yes the car can always run on gas as far as I know. Not sure if it can when all cells are dead but that has not been the case.

dennis

· #6 · Aug 31, 2013

FISCALI said:
thank you for clarifying the fan issue .. so we are down to the battery only

1-other than bad batch in Michigan all batteries produced by A123 ARE GOOD ?

Better stated as other than the bad batch in Michigan there are no known defects. The front camera on my Iphone 5 failed last month. No known defects, but failures can still happen.

2-by checking the vin history will show the suspected battery?

No, you have to check the battery serial number

3-can you by test drive the car on stealth only can you tell if the battery ok or not?

No. When my battery failed, the car still drove fine in Stealth. But it took 11 hours to charge instead of 5.5 hours. And sometimes charging would cause the MIL (CEL) to come on.

4-if the battery bad can you still drive on gas

No, the HV battery must be functioning because current is drawn from the battery and the ICE is used as a generator to replenish the battery.

So the short answer is: its complicated. The only way to know that the HV battery in a car you are purchasing is OK is to compare its battery serial # to the list of known defective batteries or to have documentation that the battery was replaced after A123 announced the problem with the Fisker batteries they produced in Michigan (March 2012 I believe).

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Lormax

· #7 · Aug 31, 2013

#1) Since I've left the dealership back in mid April, I've only ever heard of one car that didn't have the recall completed on it. I sourced the parts for the owner and it's now been completed. The fan recall is almost a non-issue at this point.

#2) All the batteries have a possibility of failing. Lets face it, it's a man-made part, things break. Yes, the earlier revision batteries are more prone to failure. This doesn't brick your car. Also, batteries can now be rebuilt and the failing component(s) can be replaced. If I was going to buy one, yes I'd be looking for a car with an updated or later revision battery. Is it a complete deal breaker if I can't find one though? No it's not.

#3) Green dot indicator guarantees hardened splines. No green dot does not mean they are not hardened splines. I'd check the RDM serial # then take an educated guess. If the RDM serial # is higher, there's a good chance the traction motors were replaced as well. If it's still a low RDM serial #, then the motors may not have been replaced. Either way, this problem can be solved, sometimes without replacing parts if the work is done early enough.

#4) The original exhaust has issues that I can almost guarantee will come up at some point. The version one Bosal exhausts will break as well. Version two Bosal exhausts have a noise issue that can be fixed. Version three Bosal exhausts have no issues that I've ran into YET.

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smoothoperator

· #8 · Aug 31, 2013

dennis said:
I believe you have drawn the wrong conclusion on at least these two, and possibly the rest:

1) Fisker initiated an NHTSA recall on the cooling fan issue. This means that every owner was notified and the dealerships were proactive in contacting customers since they got paid for warranty work. There have only been 2 Karma fires EVER and none since the fan recall.

2) There was an identified manufacturing defect with A123 batteries produced in Michigan during a specified timeframe. Those are the bad batteries. It is true that not all of them have been replaced, so you need to make sure that any Karma you purchase does not still have a suspect battery. Also there are several individuals/Fisker service centers that are successfully doing repairs of failed battery modules and failed on-board chargers. So you statement that you will end up with a bricked car and that there is no good battery is not true.

This may be neither here nor there but there at least 3 customer cars that have had fires. The Houston one, one in Mass (Earth), and one on Woodside (Deep Ocean). Maybe former Fisker employees can verify if there are any others but I am 100% sure that at least these 3 exist. Just for future reference the last two had relatively late vins (15xx & 16xx), not sure what the Houston vin was. I honestly believe that the problem was after vin 14xx+ and the lower vins being replaced did not have this issue. FA was just overly cautious.

Lormax said:
#1) Since I've left the dealership back in mid April, I've only ever heard of one car that didn't have the recall completed on it. I sourced the parts for the owner and it's now been completed. The fan recall is almost a non-issue at this point.

I know of at least one Fisker Karma that has not had the recall performed. That is vin yh4k16aa5ca000208 that is/was being sold by the former Fisker dealership in Little Rock, AR. This was a few months ago so maybe something has changed since then but as far as I know this is the last Karma in the wild that has not had the recall performed.

dennis

· #9 · Aug 31, 2013

smoothoperator said:
This may be neither here nor there but there at least 3 customer cars that have had fires. The Houston one, one in Mass (Earth), and one on Woodside (Deep Ocean). Maybe former Fisker employees can verify if there are any others but I am 100% sure that at least these 3 exist. Just for future reference the last two had relatively late vins (15xx & 16xx), not sure what the Houston vin was. I honestly believe that the problem was after vin 14xx+ and the lower vins being replaced did not have this issue. FA was just overly cautious.

I never saw any publicity on a fire in Mass.

smoothoperator

· #10 · Aug 31, 2013

dennis said:
I never saw any publicity on a fire in Mass.

They kept it under wraps pretty well. The interesting thing about this fire was that it started on the passenger side.

Lormax

· #11 · Aug 31, 2013

smoothoperator said:
I honestly believe that the problem was after vin 14xx+ and the lower vins being replaced did not have this issue. FA was just overly cautious.

I know of at least one Fisker Karma that has not had the recall performed. That is vin yh4k16aa5ca000208 that is/was being sold by the former Fisker dealership in Little Rock, AR. This was a few months ago so maybe something has changed since then but as far as I know this is the last Karma in the wild that has not had the recall performed.

I changed more than enough fans on the early production cars that we used for engineering to be sure the problem was on them too.

I'll shoot them a call. That's just not safe, it needs to be completed.

FISCALI

Discussion Starter · #12 · Aug 31, 2013

thank you guys now i have better understanding
i was under the impression that
1- fisker bankrupt because these problem with cars and they ran out of money to fix and produce new cars AND BAD MANAGEMENT ..
2- A123 bankrupt because the bad battery and they dont have money replace 2500 battery @ 12k a piece <<< this whole sale cost A123 agreed to sell to fiSker in the future

FISCALI

Discussion Starter · #13 · Aug 31, 2013

so im down to these cars all new low mileage tax credit
brand new

YH4K14AA9CA000569<<< less than 2k
YH4K14AA9CA001382<<<< less than 2k
YH4K14AA2CA001207<<<<<<<<only 78 MILE

How can i check battery serial and rdm fan etc..

FISCALI

Discussion Starter · #14 · Aug 31, 2013

dennis said:
1-other than bad batch in Michigan all batteries

3-can you by test drive the car on stealth only can you tell if the battery ok or not?

No. When my battery failed, the car still drove fine in Stealth. But it took 11 hours to charge instead of 5.5 hours. And sometimes charging would cause the MIL (CEL) to come on.

4-if the battery bad can you still drive on gas

No, the HV battery must be functioning because current is drawn from the battery and the ICE is used as a generator to replenish the battery.

So the short answer is: its complicated. The only way to know that the HV battery in a car you are purchasing is OK is to compare its battery serial # to the list of known defective batteries or to have documentation that the battery was replaced after A123 announced the problem with the Fisker batteries they produced in Michigan (March 2012 I believe).

From 5.5 to 11 hours on 220 volt or the standard charger?
so the battery problems either
1- weak can still function cause by if few bad cells this require longer time to charge and work the ICE harder using more gas? how much will cost to fix
2-DEAD not taking charge at all end up with bricked car , can still be fixed by replacing bad cells

to be safe i need to look for documentation HV WAS Replaced after 03/01/2012

FISCALI

Discussion Starter · #15 · Aug 31, 2013

FISCALI said:
What you consider low , HIGH VIN#S ?
LOW start from CA00001 TO ---------?
High good vin#s start from----------? to CA2700

this Laguna with highest vi I ever seen does it mean its problem free ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Othe...pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item41766afc6c&vxp=mtr

any one can answer?

Fabulist

· #16 · Aug 31, 2013

FISCALI said:
so im down to these cars all new low mileage tax credit
brand new

YH4K14AA9CA000569<<< less than 2k
YH4K14AA9CA001382<<<< less than 2k
YH4K14AA2CA001207<<<<<<<<only 78 MILE

How can i check battery serial and rdm fan etc..

FISCALI said:
any one can answer?

Please be patient. Everyone here is a volunteer and does this in addition to their day job. That they do it at all is a great favor and generous gift of their time to the members of this forum. They don't deserve to be dunned for answers because you are in a hurry.

FISCALI

Discussion Starter · #17 · Aug 31, 2013

Fabulist said:
Please be patient. Everyone here is a volunteer and does this in addition to their day job. That they do it at all is a great favor and generous gift of their time to the members of this forum. They don't deserve to be dunned for answers because you are in a hurry.

i totally understand.. they are doing wonderful job .. im not rushing any one ..

.. i just need to post all what i need to ask before i forget

Fanofearth

· #18 · Sep 1, 2013

I am looking at buying this car...Can anyone tell me what has been done to it?

YH4K14AA9CA001155

dennis

· #19 · Sep 1, 2013

FISCALI said:
From 5.5 to 11 hours on 220 volt or the standard charger?
so the battery problems either
1- weak can still function cause by if few bad cells this require longer time to charge and work the ICE harder using more gas? how much will cost to fix
2-DEAD not taking charge at all end up with bricked car , can still be fixed by replacing bad cells

to be safe i need to look for documentation HV WAS Replaced after 03/01/2012

It was 220V but the lengthened charging time was just one symptom of the battery failing. If a cell fails you have to replace the module containing the cell. There are now several people around the US doing this type of repair to Fisker batteries but I personally do not know the cost since I got a full replacement battery under warranty.

smggsm

· #20 · Sep 2, 2013

FISCALI said:
so im down to these cars all new low mileage tax credit
brand new

YH4K14AA9CA000569<<< less than 2k
YH4K14AA9CA001382<<<< less than 2k
YH4K14AA2CA001207<<<<<<<<only 78 MILE

How can i check battery serial and rdm fan etc..

i looked at these too , in karmas world they are problem because they are low mileage ( in other cars lower the better

)
i read some where that was most of fiskers problem appear 5-10k mile..

1382 and 1207 not sure if these consider good high VIN's ,
there is many expert her for sure have better idea,,

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

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