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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is news to me, but I am semi-surprised that Visteon is also the maker of the Karma's "premium" audio system (in addition to the Command Center and headlights).

From one of their press releases:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/visteon-products-shine-on-fisker-karma-hybrid-electric-vehicle-133357548.html

...The Karma incorporates Visteon's advanced infotainment platform that allows technologies to be quickly added and customized for any market. The system provides state-of-the-art onboard navigation, AM/FM/satellite radio, USB/iPod® connectivity, and Bluetooth® wireless technology audio streaming and hands-free phone functionality. Visteon designed the user interface for all major vehicle infotainment and climate controls, accessed through a 10.2-inch haptic touch screen display that eliminates the need for mechanical dials and buttons, reducing materials and production tooling.

Additionally, Visteon supplies a premium audio system with multiple amplifiers and speakers. By utilizing a high-efficiency Class D audio amplifier, the system draws less current, supporting Fisker's green technology objectives...
I'd like to know what everyone else thinks of the audio system, but I expected more and was underwhelmed. When I sit in the driver's seat, it sounds like I'm just hearing audio from the front left speaker rather than a fulsome surround sound like in some other cars with systems like Bose, Bang Olufsen, Harman Kardon (Top 10 cars for audiophiles). I know the other speakers are on, but the vocals in songs or even the sound of cymbalic crescendos all sound unclear and muddy... (not quite static-y, but not high end). I also notice during Bluetooth phone calls that the callers sound very static-y. Anyone have a similar experience/impression?
 

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SoCalGuy said:
This is news to me, but I am semi-surprised that Visteon is also the maker of the Karma's "premium" audio system (in addition to the Command Center and headlights).

From one of their press releases:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/visteon-products-shine-on-fisker-karma-hybrid-electric-vehicle-133357548.html

...The Karma incorporates Visteon's advanced infotainment platform that allows technologies to be quickly added and customized for any market. The system provides state-of-the-art onboard navigation, AM/FM/satellite radio, USB/iPod® connectivity, and Bluetooth® wireless technology audio streaming and hands-free phone functionality. Visteon designed the user interface for all major vehicle infotainment and climate controls, accessed through a 10.2-inch haptic touch screen display that eliminates the need for mechanical dials and buttons, reducing materials and production tooling.

Additionally, Visteon supplies a premium audio system with multiple amplifiers and speakers. By utilizing a high-efficiency Class D audio amplifier, the system draws less current, supporting Fisker's green technology objectives...
I'd like to know what everyone else thinks of the audio system, but I expected more and was underwhelmed. When I sit in the driver's seat, it sounds like I'm just hearing audio from the front left speaker rather than a fulsome surround sound like in some other cars with systems like Bose, Bang Olufsen, Harman Kardon (Top 10 cars for audiophiles). I know the other speakers are on, but the vocals in songs or even the sound of cymbalic crescendos all sound unclear and muddy... (not quite static-y, but not high end). I also notice during Bluetooth phone calls that the callers sound very static-y. Anyone have a similar experience/impression?
My thought was, "I'm glad I got the premium system because the standard one must be really bad." I hope that it simply needs to be fine tuned. Any chance this could be a software fix? I know we are stuck with the speakers, but perhaps the processing could be improved.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
karma1 said:
My thought was, "I'm glad I got the premium system because the standard one must be really bad." I hope that it simply needs to be fine tuned. Any chance this could be a software fix? I know we are stuck with the speakers, but perhaps the processing could be improved.
So I'm not crazy in thinking the sound system isn't really that great, am I? Dutch, you were impressed, curious how it compares to other sound systems you've heard.

Anyone else have a view?
 

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To me it seemed about like the "premium" sound system in a Chevy. It is certainly inferior to the Harmon Kardon systems, and nothing even approaching the quality of the B&O systems. I might be a bit hard on it. I may have thought it sounded a bit better if the other bugs weren't buzzing around my head. I will try a more objective evaluation after I get my car back.
 

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I actually thought the premium system sounded pretty good. My only beef is that there's no mid-range adjustment which I think it needs, but it sounds better than any other stock stereo that I've ever had in a car.
 

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SoCalGuy said:
karma1 said:
My thought was, "I'm glad I got the premium system because the standard one must be really bad." I hope that it simply needs to be fine tuned. Any chance this could be a software fix? I know we are stuck with the speakers, but perhaps the processing could be improved.
So I'm not crazy in thinking the sound system isn't really that great, am I? Dutch, you were impressed, curious how it compares to other sound systems you've heard.

Anyone else have a view?
To my ears it sounds pretty good, but my only comparison is the sound system in my A6 Allroad (which isn't too bad either). I'm not really an expert when it comes to sound systems, so there are probably better systems out there. But I am very happy with this one. Anyway, most of the time I don't listen to music. I enjoy the silence to 'think/meditate', and I now have a really silent car for that.
 

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Dutch said:
SoCalGuy said:
karma1 said:
My thought was, "I'm glad I got the premium system because the standard one must be really bad." I hope that it simply needs to be fine tuned. Any chance this could be a software fix? I know we are stuck with the speakers, but perhaps the processing could be improved.
So I'm not crazy in thinking the sound system isn't really that great, am I? Dutch, you were impressed, curious how it compares to other sound systems you've heard.

Anyone else have a view?
To my ears it sounds pretty good, but my only comparison is the sound system in my A6 Allroad (which isn't too bad either). I'm not really an expert when it comes to sound systems, so there are probably better systems out there. But I am very happy with this one. Anyway, most of the time I don't listen to music. I enjoy the silence to 'think/meditate', and I now have a really silent car for that.
It is certainly possible that there are consistency issues with the sound systems so that some cars are good and some are not.
 

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Being an AV-guy it´s funny reading that they have surround sound in a cars. Who needs surround sound in a car sitting to te left and listening to music often in 2 channel:)

If they just fix good stereosound:)[hr]
Being an AV-guy it´s funny reading that they have surround sound in a cars. Who needs surround sound in a car sitting to te left and listening to music often in 2 channel:)

If they just fix good stereosound:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
karma1 said:
It is certainly possible that there are consistency issues with the sound systems so that some cars are good and some are not.
That's what I'm wondering. Does anyone else have that scratchy/tinny sound on the Bluetooth phone calls? That was pretty consistent.

My parents both have Audi Q5s and I find the sound system much better than the Karma's. The sound seems fuller and less localized (ie doesn't sound like you're hearing the music from just one local speaker, but rather throughout the car) and the Bluetooth calls are very clear and static-free.
 

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SoCalGuy said:
karma1 said:
It is certainly possible that there are consistency issues with the sound systems so that some cars are good and some are not.
That's what I'm wondering. Does anyone else have that scratchy/tinny sound on the Bluetooth phone calls? That was pretty consistent.

My parents both have Audi Q5s and I find the sound system much better than the Karma's. The sound seems fuller and less localized (ie doesn't sound like you're hearing the music from just one local speaker, but rather throughout the car) and the Bluetooth calls are very clear and static-free.
Not only scratchy at my end, but echoes so badly on the other end that I was always forced to switch over to my handset so they could understand me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
karma1 said:
SoCalGuy said:
karma1 said:
It is certainly possible that there are consistency issues with the sound systems so that some cars are good and some are not.
That's what I'm wondering. Does anyone else have that scratchy/tinny sound on the Bluetooth phone calls? That was pretty consistent.

My parents both have Audi Q5s and I find the sound system much better than the Karma's. The sound seems fuller and less localized (ie doesn't sound like you're hearing the music from just one local speaker, but rather throughout the car) and the Bluetooth calls are very clear and static-free.
Not only scratchy at my end, but echoes so badly on the other end that I was always forced to switch over to my handset so they could understand me.
I'm still putting together my detailed observations list. This is on it. Have you spoken to your dealer about that issue yet? Curious if others have had our same experience.

When I spoke to Henrik, it was actually while driving in my Karma so I told him "Actually, funny enough Henrik I'm talking to you from my Karma" to which he replied "Oh, so it must sound very clear then"... I laughed and really wanted to say "Well, actually, ..." but I had bigger issues/questions to ask (like how come we aren't getting comp'd for the delays and price hikes like McLaren and Tesla did for their early adopters?)
 

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SoCalGuy said:
but I had bigger issues/questions to ask (like how come we aren't getting comp'd for the delays and price hikes like McLaren and Tesla did for their early adopters?)
I'm curious to hear what his answer was to that million dollar-question.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
He basically denied the premise of the question that prices were hiked, by saying that the initial numbers we saw were only "guidance" that the Fisker gave to the market not firm "prices." He also said that there's been cost escalation in the last few years etc etc. Like I said before, he was very scripted/less candid. I work mainly with CEOs for a living and the really good ones that have generated immense shareholder value have in common, among other things, an openness/transparency (and quiet confidence) about their actions, the rationale, and the way ahead. They make you feel like you're all part of the same team; in one-on-one conversations like this, they make you feel like part of the inner circle, an insider (and not in the SEC sense!). This is really Henrik's first venture as commander in chief of a business (design studios don't count, since those are just cost centers), so I can see how he's not yet comfortable/seasoned in that role. Hopefully he'll get there. And hopefully, he'll be able to do right by the early adopters out there. Elon Musk, for all of his sideline drama, has and had been very vocal and open about issues with the Roadster and Model S. But he's from the Silicon Valley school of thought, more entrepreneurial/open source, he built, ran and sold PayPal, etc. I worry that when you look at the top leadership within Fisker, they are all auto people, old-line Detroit thinkers. A new kind of car and a new kind of company require more dot-com savvy and nimbleness (it shouldn't take 6-mos+ to update command center responsiveness!!!)... anyway, Fisker has potential. Let's hope they deliver (sorry for the rant!)
 

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Elon has another thing going for him too....he rubs elbows with Tony Stark. Maybe Henrik should get in bed with Reed Richards. lol.
 

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SoCalGuy said:
...it shouldn't take 6-mos+ to update command center responsiveness!!!...
I'm concerned the responsiveness problem may be hardware-related, and by pushing it out into the 2013 model year, they may try to avoid replacing the hardware in the '12 MY cars, calling it an improvement for 2013, and not a "fix" for the 2012 cars. :dodgy:
 

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matrix said:
I'm concerned the responsiveness problem may be hardware-related, and by pushing it out into the 2013 model year, they may try to avoid replacing the hardware in the '12 MY cars, calling it an improvement for 2013, and not a "fix" for the 2012 cars. :dodgy:
It's possible, but I don't think it's actually the case. I think they're logging a ton of crap er I mean "useful data" to flash, which produces terrible delays in the UI.

I'd bet that the developers were logging this same data to an ordinary disk drive ("hard disk" in the modern vernacular, although that term is just dumb now), which is much faster (flash writes, and especially flash erase-before-write, is horribly slow). (Even compared to the "horrible slowness" of external hardware access, which is measured in 100s or even 1000s of CPU cycles now, and of disk writes, which can take millions: flash can take not mere millions but nearly a billion CPU cycles, in some cases.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
ct-fiskerbuzz said:
matrix said:
I'm concerned the responsiveness problem may be hardware-related, and by pushing it out into the 2013 model year, they may try to avoid replacing the hardware in the '12 MY cars, calling it an improvement for 2013, and not a "fix" for the 2012 cars. :dodgy:
It's possible, but I don't think it's actually the case. I think they're logging a ton of crap er I mean "useful data" to flash, which produces terrible delays in the UI.

I'd bet that the developers were logging this same data to an ordinary disk drive ("hard disk" in the modern vernacular, although that term is just dumb now), which is much faster (flash writes, and especially flash erase-before-write, is horribly slow). (Even compared to the "horrible slowness" of external hardware access, which is measured in 100s or even 1000s of CPU cycles now, and of disk writes, which can take millions: flash can take not mere millions but nearly a billion CPU cycles, in some cases.)
I did - see post #13 above.
 
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