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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Nissan is reportedly upgrading the 3.3kW charger to 6.6kW. AFAIK, Engineer's Rev2 EVSE ([email protected]) will be able to charge at the full 3.84kW rather than 3.3kW currently, and you'll be able to pull 6.6kW ([email protected]) at your public L2 Chargepoints, Blinks, etc.

I say this because I did research on the Charge stations and bought the one with the best output but cannot use it to its potential.
Schneider Electric EVLink, Output 7.2kW, Voltage 208-240VAC, Amps 30, Hz 50/60, 1 Phase, Plug Type SAE J1772
If I had the dual inline 3.3 chargers I guess could charge twice as fast... or replace the 3.3 to a single 6.6

here is a good article
http://www.plugincars.com/how-fast-can-you-really-charge-your-plug-car-answer-more-complicated-you-think-64616.html

anyone have a picture of the charger used on our fiskers? is there room for a 6.6 or dual 3.3's?
 

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KyleKeith
Why did you choose Schneider over GE for example?
I'm looking to get one from Home Depot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I went on some EV forums listening to OG EV guys and bought the EVLink due to the price at home depot was $750 which they have now raised it to $899... but Lowes has it for $799 and home depot will probably price match.

The charger the dealership was selling which has the orange coiled cable.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=203013921&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&MERCH=REC-_-product-1-_-203001939-_-203013921-_-N

this is the most common, FEATURES. 240V, 16A, 3.8kW all for $799

the best bang for your buck even though our cars will only accept 3.3kw is the EVLink at 7.2kW for only $750..

I feel it will last a lot longer being overrated for the current charge specifications. :)
 

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kylekeith said:
anyone have a picture of the charger used on our fiskers? is there room for a 6.6 or dual 3.3's?




and on the right side you have coolant pumps:


you may be able to put a second one in where the coolant pumps currently sit and relocate those, however you will need some custom HV cables made, and i do not know how you go about linking the two together
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
That is awesome...

Thanks!
[hr]
The Coda uses a J 1772 standard plug-in vehicle interface and two parallel 3.3kW chargers to provide a 6.6kW level two charge that refuels at better than 10 miles of range per 30 minutes of charge time.
 

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that is true, however, IIRC correctly you need to drop the 1/2ton battery pack to get to the chargers on those, and currently CODA won't allow us to touch them without a babysitter present. if the oppertunity arrises, i'll see what i can find out and get some pictures for you.
 

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kylekeith said:
That is awesome...

Thanks!
[hr]
The Coda uses a J 1772 standard plug-in vehicle interface and two parallel 3.3kW chargers to provide a 6.6kW level two charge that refuels at better than 10 miles of range per 30 minutes of charge time.
Having to squeeze in a second box, plus all the attendant wiring and plumbing, into what is already a pretty tight space seems inelegant, to say the least. What's the advantage of having two parallel 3.3KW chargers versus a single 6.6KW charger? Is it cost? I can't imagine that a 6.6KW charger is significantly larger than a 3.3KW charger, let alone twice as big.
 

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I had my on-board charging unit replaced. I wonder if Fisker would come out with a faster on-board charger that we could swap out with the slower one. Being able to charge the Karma fully in 3 hours would be great. Or at least being able to get another 16 miles of range while you have your hour-long lunch would be fantastic!

Is there a limitation on how much juice the battery can absorb at any one point in time? Any permanent damange if it draws too much current? I would hope not given if I drive downhill on a street by my house I can easily add 1-2 miles of battery range with Hill 2 on...
 

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SoCalGuy said:
I had my on-board charging unit replaced. I wonder if Fisker would come out with a faster on-board charger that we could swap out with the slower one. Being able to charge the Karma fully in 3 hours would be great. Or at least being able to get another 16 miles of range while you have your hour-long lunch would be fantastic!

Is there a limitation on how much juice the battery can absorb at any one point in time? Any permanent damange if it draws too much current? I would hope not given if I drive downhill on a street by my house I can easily add 1-2 miles of battery range with Hill 2 on...
I would think that the choice of 1.5/3.3KW charger was pretty deliberate since the higher energy chargers were available when the Karma was designed and built. I assume that the max current from the charger is specified by A123 who makes the batteries and that choice represents a balance between longevity and convenience.
 

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Fabulist said:
SoCalGuy said:
I had my on-board charging unit replaced. I wonder if Fisker would come out with a faster on-board charger that we could swap out with the slower one. Being able to charge the Karma fully in 3 hours would be great. Or at least being able to get another 16 miles of range while you have your hour-long lunch would be fantastic!

Is there a limitation on how much juice the battery can absorb at any one point in time? Any permanent damange if it draws too much current? I would hope not given if I drive downhill on a street by my house I can easily add 1-2 miles of battery range with Hill 2 on...
I would think that the choice of 1.5/3.3KW charger was pretty deliberate since the higher energy chargers were available when the Karma was designed and built. I assume that the max current from the charger is specified by A123 who makes the batteries and that choice represents a balance between longevity and convenience.
But it can obviously recharge at a faster rate - e.g. during downhill regen braking and also how the old roadshow cars operated (having the ICE replenish the batteries). In fact, even now the ICE under heavy acceleration borrows 1-2 miles of power from the battery and pays it back. Thoughts?
 

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SoCalGuy said:
Fabulist said:
SoCalGuy said:
I had my on-board charging unit replaced. I wonder if Fisker would come out with a faster on-board charger that we could swap out with the slower one. Being able to charge the Karma fully in 3 hours would be great. Or at least being able to get another 16 miles of range while you have your hour-long lunch would be fantastic!

Is there a limitation on how much juice the battery can absorb at any one point in time? Any permanent damange if it draws too much current? I would hope not given if I drive downhill on a street by my house I can easily add 1-2 miles of battery range with Hill 2 on...
I would think that the choice of 1.5/3.3KW charger was pretty deliberate since the higher energy chargers were available when the Karma was designed and built. I assume that the max current from the charger is specified by A123 who makes the batteries and that choice represents a balance between longevity and convenience.
But it can obviously recharge at a faster rate - e.g. during downhill regen braking and also how the old roadshow cars operated (having the ICE replenish the batteries). In fact, even now the ICE under heavy acceleration borrows 1-2 miles of power from the battery and pays it back. Thoughts?
That's a very good point and I had not considered that. I am sure the car's control system does not allow the full 175KW from the generator to be applied to charging the battery, but it probably sends more than 3.3KW to the battery when it is running.
 

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Fabulist said:
I would think that the choice of 1.5/3.3KW charger was pretty deliberate since the higher energy chargers were available when the Karma was designed and built. I assume that the max current from the charger is specified by A123 who makes the batteries and that choice represents a balance between longevity and convenience.
It's definitely not the batteries. Charging at 6.6 kW (which is still relatively low) represents about a 0.3C rate. Those A123 batteries should be able to handle a 30C rate. 175kW if it all went to the batteries would represent about a 9C rate.

As far why Fisker went with only a 3.3kW charger, it probably has to do with cost, availability, and homologation concerns. 3.3kW was probably easier to find off the shelf. But also the Karma is sold in Europe where 3-phase is common and you're often not allowed to pull more than 16A single phase.
 

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would a 6.6 kw charger require new cabling? Also, anyone have a pic of one of these onboard 6.6kW chargers?
 

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SoCalGuy said:
I had my on-board charging unit replaced. I wonder if Fisker would come out with a faster on-board charger that we could swap out with the slower one. Being able to charge the Karma fully in 3 hours would be great. Or at least being able to get another 16 miles of range while you have your hour-long lunch would be fantastic!

Is there a limitation on how much juice the battery can absorb at any one point in time? Any permanent damange if it draws too much current? I would hope not given if I drive downhill on a street by my house I can easily add 1-2 miles of battery range with Hill 2 on...
Socalguy, when you go downhill in hill2, are you in stealth or sport? I'm thinking about your post about ratcheting up the range with hill2 and trying to replicate it... Did you say you got more regen kw in sport mode, right?
 

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rex said:
SoCalGuy said:
I had my on-board charging unit replaced. I wonder if Fisker would come out with a faster on-board charger that we could swap out with the slower one. Being able to charge the Karma fully in 3 hours would be great. Or at least being able to get another 16 miles of range while you have your hour-long lunch would be fantastic!

Is there a limitation on how much juice the battery can absorb at any one point in time? Any permanent damange if it draws too much current? I would hope not given if I drive downhill on a street by my house I can easily add 1-2 miles of battery range with Hill 2 on...
Socalguy, when you go downhill in hill2, are you in stealth or sport? I'm thinking about your post about ratcheting up the range with hill2 and trying to replicate it... Did you say you got more regen kw in sport mode, right?
I'm usually in Sport mode. So I'll drive up the hills here to the top (great coastal views) then on my descent, click into Hill 2 and let it coast down... sometimes tapping the brake to increase regen to max. By the time I'm down the hill, I've usually added about 2-3 miles in total. So I click out of Sport into Stealth and back to Sport to "lock in" the new battery range (making the computer think that's the original battery range and to use the ICE to maintain that minimum range when in Sport mode).
 

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SoCalGuy said:
would a 6.6 kw charger require new cabling?
Maybe not, if they could do it in one package. The whole thing is a bit moot, though. Either way it would have to be something installed by Fisker.

SoCalGuy said:
Also, anyone have a pic of one of these onboard 6.6kW chargers?
No, but for comparison, here's a liquid cooled 10kW charger in one of the early Model S Alpha prototypes (sans interior).


http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157629747576222/

It sits under the rear passenger seats. For 20kW they put two in parallel.
 

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Hello all, I'm new to this forum. I think I can answer this question since being part of this Nissan Leaf forum. The answer is yes, of course it can be done much the same way for Karma as it is for Leaf, although you did not define the term "reasonable cost". I don't own Karma so cannot comment on installation details, but what's involved is installing additional charger (or two) in parallel to the stock one and enable them whenever stock charger is active. These boosters will inject current along with stock charger into the battery, currents (and so power) just sums up. AS I understand Karma has 3.3kW stock charger - same as '11 and '12 Leaf. So to half charging time you just get another 3.3kW booster charger and to cut charging time to 1/2 of what you have now, you install two boosters. One can get power from the same J1772 inlet you have for 6.6kW total. Two boosters is pushing it - inlet contacts are not rated for such current (48A total), they will get hot and will fail prematurely.
You need to use isolated chargers that can be controlled either over CAN or analog way - either way is OK, but if you go CAN mode you will need to tap into Karma's CAN bus traffic, decipher messages being sent to/from stock charger, and make your own controller sending proper CAN commands to booster charger(s).
The reason I'm writing all this is because I got email from I think Karma owner who asked what it would take to retrofit Karma with the same charger people add to a Leaf. Anyone will tell you that one of best charger choices is of course BRUSA NLG513 OEM charger used in many production EVs, it's also very popular in Europe.
Now, it's time for disclaimer - my company sells and supports these chargers in the USA and Canada, and of course would benefit from selling them for projects like this (though it is tiny volume compared to OEM consumption), but I'm not marketing them or write as supplier - I'm writing as happy user who upgraded OEM way my '2011 Leaf with 3 units (10kW booster) and now usability of my Leaf that charges now 0-80% in about 90 minutes from any 240 VAC outlet (without EVSE) is greatly increased. This upgrade is kind of extreme though, most people would settle for one booster, very few - for two.
If you curious, here are couple of photos of what it looks like in my case:
http://www.metricmind.com/leaf/images/120.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/leaf/images/125.jpg
Here is simple site I put together describing the process what I've done:
http://www.metricmind.com/leaf/main.htm
I did not touch CAN stuff - it works beautifully without it.

Same thing I'm sure can be done for Karma, but as I mentioned, most people would be happy to just double charging rate with only one unit. I don't do this type of work for living, and all the info how it's done is open source, so it can be applied to Karma or pretty much any OEM EV. BTW, there is group effort on Leaf forum to get a batch of NLG5 water cooled chargers to keep the cost down:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=14115
I don't know how much Karma fans talk to Leaf fans, but it many of you would like to explore this path, it would make sense to join Leaf group and benefit from larger quantity discount. Frankly, I don't know what the status of Leaf owners' group is,
I don't follow it.

Anyway, I just felt qualified enough to comment that from technical point of view upgrading Karma's 3.3kW charger with BRUSA NLG513 would also be trivial task, mostly mechanical work - brackets, cabling, etc. Speaking from personal experience.

With enough demand if someone wants to subject his Karma to the upgrade I can assist with this. Simple kit can be developed (as Leaf enthusiasts have done).

Anyway,

Have fun with your cool vehicles, I just thought you all would like to know about all this. Welcome to ask me any questions.

Victor :)
 

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Just want to put my last 2cents in this topic please modify the the car it will give me and Lormax a ton of work . I think one of the smartest things to do is mess around with the can network fry the OBCM and have a 5600 LB brick in your garage . Just PM us when you need the OBCM or the HV battery rebuilt . All ready this week I've had three Karmas come in for not charging at least two of them have faulty,EDM's the third one I believe has a faulty OBCM . And these owners are just trying to charge there cars normally .
On a good note at least if you modify you car you won't void the warranty . This car is so picky why would you even think about modifying it . Just enjoy it the way it is I know this thread is basically a discussion the topic goes around and around . Like I said my 2 cents

Oh yeah it's easy to do on Nissan Leaf they still can get parts . And the Karma and the Leaf have so much in common in the way the charging systems were designed .
 
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