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EX:Shadow/Canyon #324
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was able to take a few photos of the Karma innards when I was at the dealer last week. This first photo shows the underside with the belly pan removed. I was impressed by how clean and tidy everything is. Note the housing for the motors, the batteries running down the center and the orange high voltage cables that travel from the batteries to the inverters.



Here is a closeup view of the high voltage cabling:



Finally, a look at the inverters, which are located between the rear seat and the trunk area. There is one inverter for each electric motor. The gas tank sits below the bracket that mounts the inverters. I believe the braided black hoses going to each inverter are for coolant.

 

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dennis said:
... Finally, a look at the inverters, which are located between the rear seat and the trunk area. There is one inverter for each electric motor. The gas tank sits below the bracket that mounts the inverters. I believe the braided black hoses going to each inverter are for coolant.
They must be (coolant pipes). Those inverters and heat sink packages are bigger than I expected, for some reason! Of course the huge amounts of power dissipated require a lot of heat sink area. It's just a surprise to actually see it, somehow. :)
 

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Very cool dennis, thanks for the pics. No wonder we have no trunk space, half of it is filled with inverters. lol. It is worth it though. Another nice thing if Fisker were to switch to lithium titanate batteries is that they could be air-cooled making it much lighter, sans liquid cooling equipment and liquid, at least for the battery.
 

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Here's maybe a dumb question - do those inverters generate much magnetic field/EM radiation (ala power lines)? Given they're literally right behind the rear passengers, thought its worth asking.
 

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Not really, as long as your passengers are wearing magnetic bracelets that align their bodies magnetic fields.
 

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That should do it. But, we better wait for one of the electrical engineers chime in.
 

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Hi Dennis... I was under that car, too, and chatted with Mike there. I was the customer with Alessandro just as you walked up to the service bay. I was just getting my car back after the software upgrade (mine works fine) -- I heard him call you Dennis and wondered if you were "this" Dennis. I also came back to thank him for the floor mats... I should have said hello to a fellow "Buzz"er.
-Dave
 

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EX:Shadow/Canyon #324
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Here are some better pics of the inverters:





The mechanic showed me the third inverter that is used for the engine/generator. It is mounted on the firewall on the passenger side (note yellow high voltage sticker).

 

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No wonder this car weighs 2.5 tons. It has three of everything!

-- Fab.
 

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Those look massive! Wonder if they'll be able to shave some size/weight off of those things with the Nina powertrain...
 

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SoCalGuy said:
Those look massive! Wonder if they'll be able to shave some size/weight off of those things with the Nina powertrain...
Those inverters do look huge. Are those off the shelf components? Another thing that stands out to me is all those long runs of (heavy) cable. Seems a lot of that could be reduced with more custom components and better placement. Looking forward to seeing what they can do with the Nina.
 

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EX:Shadow/Canyon #324
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Here are a couple of pics of the rear subframe of the Karma removed to allow replacement of one of the electric motors. Each time I see part of the inner workings of the Karma, I am more impressed by the level of workmanship in things like the castings, and the overall "beefiness" of the componentry.

Thanks to the Service Dept. at Fisker Silicon Valley for allowing me to take these photos and post them. :thumbup:



 

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That is MY damn car, having Fisker service my Karma and fix the sluggishness issue (caused by a assembly issue on Valmets line and not caught by either Valmet or Fisker Silicon Valleys QA) is turning into a frustrating nightmare. Pray you never have to have anything actually fixed on your Karma's beyond software, the responsiveness and communication from the dealer (and Fiskers ability to supply timely replacement parts) have been ludicrous. If you thought the 4 year wait and delivery was bad, it's de-ja-voux all over again.
 

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EX:Shadow/Canyon #324
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
siliconkiwi said:
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That is MY damn car, having Fisker service my Karma and fix the sluggishness issue (caused by a assembly issue on Valmets line and not caught by either Valmet or Fisker Silicon Valleys QA) is turning into a frustrating nightmare. Pray you never have to have anything actually fixed on your Karma's beyond software, the responsiveness and communication from the dealer (and Fiskers ability to supply timely replacement parts) have been ludicrous. If you thought the 4 year wait and delivery was bad, it's de-ja-voux all over again.
Wow, I'm sorry to have upset you. I was so excited about seeing the inner workings of the Karma that I didn't think about the person who wasn't driving their car while waiting for the repair.

In defense of the service department of Fisker Silicon Valley, they have dealt with a couple of hard to diagnose non-software issues on my Karma and worked diligently to run the problem to ground. Since they hadn't seen either of these problems previously, it took interaction with HQ on their part and a 2nd service appointment to get them resolved. Unlike your case, my car was still driveable, so I understand your frustration. I hope your car is back on the road soon.

- dennis
 

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siliconkiwi said:
Thumb down:

That is MY damn car, having Fisker service my Karma and fix the sluggishness issue (caused by a assembly issue on Valmets line and not caught by either Valmet or Fisker Silicon Valleys QA) is turning into a frustrating nightmare. Pray you never have to have anything actually fixed on your Karma's beyond software, the responsiveness and communication from the dealer (and Fiskers ability to supply timely replacement parts) have been ludicrous. If you thought the 4 year wait and delivery was bad, it's de-ja-voux all over again.
I feel for you. I wonder if you will have the record for time at the dealer post delivery. Mine was at Frank Kent Fisker in Ft. Worth for a total of 3.5 weeks for software updates and other minor stuff.
 

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Wow - kiwi, sorry to hear that. I was just about to ask the question - replacing an entire electric motor - how does that get by Valmet QA??? That seems like a serious issue to overlook. Part of me thinks that it is utterly silly to expect a fair amount of my car to be rebuilt/replaced, then the other half reasons it out since its classic startup pains. But it does make you wonder - getting a car that has to have this or that replaced, this or that bent/tweaked/fixed, software updated and updated, etc. At some point, and there is a finite point, I'm sure we'll all say give us a new Karma from the assembly line - I don't want a kit car that has bandages all over the place!

Thankfully for me so far its been largely software, the heat shield rattling, and a few fit and finish issues.
 

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Thanks for the kinds words everyone. This was all due to a kinked coolant hose leading to one of the inverters (missed by Valmet, and the symptom - slow acceleration/limited power - missed by all the QA gates), which blew out the coolant pump and apparently damaged some other part of the motor assembly. Unfortunately as they peel the onion they keep finding more and more (heavy) components that need to be replaced, which need to be shipped in, so it's like receiving the car again one part at a time. I guess this should be expected as Fisker doesn't have a network of warehouses with spare parts sitting all around the country, but it will make me REALLY reticent to bring the car in again for any mechanical issues in the future.

IMHO (I know others have had different experiences, which is great to hear) the dealer has clammed up and communicated poorly and infrequently, which makes me question whether fixing my car and returning it to me is really a priority. It feels like a science project right now, the service center has no incentive to stop pulling the thing apart for curiosity's sake, and no incentive to stop running down the clock on my warranty and to return the car. They have plenty of service bays available, are still getting paid, so there is nothing pushing them to get the car out of there and back on the road.
 

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siliconkiwi said:
Thanks for the kinds words everyone. This was all due to a kinked coolant hose leading to one of the inverters (missed by Valmet, and the symptom - slow acceleration/limited power - missed by all the QA gates), which blew out the coolant pump and apparently damaged some other part of the motor assembly. Unfortunately as they peel the onion they keep finding more and more (heavy) components that need to be replaced, which need to be shipped in, so it's like receiving the car again one part at a time. I guess this should be expected as Fisker doesn't have a network of warehouses with spare parts sitting all around the country, but it will make me REALLY reticent to bring the car in again for any mechanical issues in the future.

IMHO (I know others have had different experiences, which is great to hear) the dealer has clammed up and communicated poorly and infrequently, which makes me question whether fixing my car and returning it to me is really a priority. It feels like a science project right now, the service center has no incentive to stop pulling the thing apart for curiosity's sake, and no incentive to stop running down the clock on my warranty and to return the car. They have plenty of service bays available, are still getting paid, so there is nothing pushing them to get the car out of there and back on the road.
Just curious - I know since yours is an SE its a little more complicated, but have you ever thought about asking for a new Karma?
 

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SoCalGuy - after a 4 year wait I'm reticent to do that, but if the trajectory doesn't improve then I will either ask for a replacement car, or a full buy-back. It would disappoint me to do that, after 4 years of waiting and only 18 days actually driving the car, but if every single interaction with Fisker/the dealer causes me this much heartburn then I may have to. I really hope that Fisker doesn't want this to happen, but have seen little from Fisker or the dealer to suggest they take my frustrations seriously. I'll let everyone here know if they do any sort of outreach and try to make this right.
 
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