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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Over the past few weeks we have received a lot of negative communication from "prospective customers" who have attended the Karma sanctioned Revero intention tour and other events. Many of the "inquiries" are based on ridiculous false information that was fed to them by the personnel at these and other events.

We have even had Karma agents pose as potential customers in an effort to waste our resources with false inquiries. The final straw was when Karma essentially compensated someone to pose as a customer to purchase our product and try to essentially reverse engineer it.

At a certain point we have to look at why this is happening and if it is even worth it for us to put ourselves out there in the public domain. It gets quite exhausting and is a waste of resources.

If we end up going this route, we will likely do things less publicly and support our existing customers with updates and new products. Essentially we will go back into "stealth" mode.
 

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At my "intention tour" I brought up the issue of the 2012 software (to the best of my non-tech ability), and nobody said anything negative about PowerSource. I probably didn't ask the question properly, and probably won't get the response accurate either, but I thought I heard something about lawyers advising KA to not go "open source", though KA has no control over others reverse-engineering it themselves. So to hear that KA may in fact be trying to reverse-engineer YOUR products is ... wow.

Anyway, this forum has always been pretty open and bias-free, and since I have largely abandoned the KA forums at this point it's my only source of communication with other owners and supporters, so I hope you'll maintain the utility of this site with your continued participation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
At my "intention tour" I brought up the issue of the 2012 software (to the best of my non-tech ability), and nobody said anything negative about PowerSource. I probably didn't ask the question properly, and probably won't get the response accurate either, but I thought I heard something about lawyers advising KA to not go "open source", though KA has no control over others reverse-engineering it themselves. So to hear that KA may in fact be trying to reverse-engineer YOUR products is ... wow.

Anyway, this forum has always been pretty open and bias-free, and since I have largely abandoned the KA forums at this point it's my only source of communication with other owners and supporters, so I hope you'll maintain the utility of this site with your continued participation.

See attached. Pretty self explanatory.

Karma refers to it as the "spy car"

Don't know if we should be laughing or angry at this point.
 

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You supported our car when others left her for dead. I hope you decide to stay with us.
 

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See attached. Pretty self explanatory.

Karma refers to it as the "spy car"

Don't know if we should be laughing or angry at this point.

I never liked these guys from the minute I met them at a Karma event. It instantly struck me that they are just milking the new Chinese
owners for as much as they can and deliver nothing.

If they really had anything going for them they would not need to steal your technology - seems like a shell game to just line their pockets.

Not unexpected.

I would get an attorney and go for some of that cash....before they waste it all
 

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Waiting for the Karma response to this one..................
Don't hold your breath, lets hope PowerSource hangs in there -- maybe Henrick will get religion and build a cooperative to sustains legacy KARMA's -- FISKER KARMA that is ;-)
 

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tom's

My car is much better now and more fun to drive for no longer worry about things like I di before.
Sty with us for in the end the good win and the charlatan's disappear or come over to the light side from the dark one
 

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That is so Unethical. But imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I feel your anger.

Eventually, this will come back and haunt them (KA). It's Karma!

Powersource, we appreciate what you have done so far, and hope you can work with Henrik one day. It seems that he has not given up on Karma early adopters yet.
 

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...Karma essentially compensated someone to pose as a customer to purchase our product...
At first I thought that it was possible that they just wanted to make sure your product(s) were safe for any of the cars covered on their two year warranty.

But the more I thought about it, the more I realized they were in stealth mode so they could reverse engineer. Otherwise they would be up front about it.

Please stay with us, besides your advice, I love what you are doing, and I am sure if the new Reveros sell, there may be a bigger market to "soup-up" the new cars as well as old.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Karma Automotive are thieves they stole our technology and implemented it in the Revero as their "sustain" mode (TOM EV mode). Scammers of the highest order. These guys are nothing more than knockoff artists. Pathetic car company. Funny thing is they couldn't even scam us themselves they had to outsource the scam to another company (Quantum).

Someone anonymously sent us this report.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
If you had patented this they wouldn't of been able to steal it ?
It is our trade secret.. they don't care they steal regardless. Lawless organization. They cannot innovate so they copy and steal. Pretty common among chinese companies

Karma actually tried to purchase our product directly, but we required a NDA and contract because we were suspicious of their motives. The ended up going this route. Crooked
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
See attached image and text :

Z E R O interest in reverse engineering your inventions. Never been part of the playbook and never will.
The gobbled together text related to a “customer agreement” makes me want to stay as far away as we can from TOM.
Asked Julian is this text is supposed to stay and if it is, count me out.
Regards, Joost

Zero interest meaning that is their only interest so they can make $$$ off our hardwork. Hilarious

These are the same people that removed battery balancing and bricked packs and are not accepting responsibility. Some of the most crooked people ever.
 

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See attached image and text :

Z E R O interest in reverse engineering your inventions. Never been part of the playbook and never will.
The gobbled together text related to a “customer agreement” makes me want to stay as far away as we can from TOM.
Asked Julian is this text is supposed to stay and if it is, count me out.
Regards, Joost

Zero interest meaning that is their only interest so they can make $$$ off our hardwork. Hilarious

These are the same people that removed battery balancing and bricked packs and are not accepting responsibility. Some of the most crooked people ever.
I bought my TOM from POWERSOURCE and very happy with the product -- Joe did a great job installing it -- original KARMA FY12 owners should be greatful to your efforts -- Karma Automotive will get what they deserve -- it's KARMA after all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
I bought my TOM from POWERSOURCE and very happy with the product -- Joe did a great job installing it -- original KARMA FY12 owners should be greatful to your efforts -- Karma Automotive will get what they deserve -- it's KARMA after all.
Thanks for your support... Our goal is to improve the car and deliver on our promises. We even have a report (that Karma commissioned themselves in an effort to cast doubt on us) which shows that our product delivers on our promises. They hired the supplier of the HCU software to commission it in an effort to try to discredit us and quite the opposite occured.

Karma owes us several hundred thousand dollars hopefully they pay- but who knows. In fact, Karma stole a portion of the TOM and implemented it in the Revero (poorly might I add).

We have many vehicles in circulation now with our technology with very good results. We plan on producing more products for the 2012 Karma and Revero but we have been hamstrung lately with the litigation with Karma Automotive which we prevailed on.

We plan on producing new products for the 2012 cars but right now we are at capacity of what we can produce without a huge investment in upgrading our manufacturing which does not make sense with the small sample size of cars. We have a pretty significant backlog we need to work through. Our goal is to be as transparent as possible with the end user. If you want some specific functionality in any of our products we are willing to produce that as well. Thank you for your support.
 

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Thanks for your support... Our goal is to improve the car and deliver on our promises. We even have a report (that Karma commissioned themselves in an effort to cast doubt on us) which shows that our product delivers on our promises. They hired the supplier of the HCU software to commission it in an effort to try to discredit us and quite the opposite occured.

Karma owes us several hundred thousand dollars hopefully they pay- but who knows. In fact, Karma stole a portion of the TOM and implemented it in the Revero (poorly might I add).

We have many vehicles in circulation now with our technology with very good results. We plan on producing more products for the 2012 Karma and Revero but we have been hamstrung lately with the litigation with Karma Automotive which we prevailed on.

We plan on producing new products for the 2012 cars but right now we are at capacity of what we can produce without a huge investment in upgrading our manufacturing which does not make sense with the small sample size of cars. We have a pretty significant backlog we need to work through. Our goal is to be as transparent as possible with the end user. If you want some specific functionality in any of our products we are willing to produce that as well. Thank you for your support.
what you have done for the community is nothing but amazing given the financial and political hurdles -- stay the course, you have many owners that appreciate what you do and I can only image as FY12 trade among car enthusiasts, you will be even more in demand -- btw I don't expect much, I just love this car and want it keep it running 4ER -- If I get a new (higher capacity) battery or new CIU in the next few years it's plus. For KA, I truly don't understand their logic. You would welcome as a niche brand some after market support and goodwill for those who stuck by the car and the concept -- go figure!
 
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