[PowerSource]

http://www.businessinsider.com/henrik-fisker-announces-vlf-automotive-2016-1

Pretty interesting read- so 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. 200MPH top speed

The vehicles would be manufactured in Auburn Hills, MI but isn't Karma Auto manufacturing in California? So two of the same vehicle bodies will be manufactured simultaneously in two different factories with two different powertrains. Get your popcorn ready.

Should be interesting?? :huh:

 

[JAM_22]

Should be interesting.

Another good read -

http://www.businessinsider.com/henrik-fisker-sues-aston-martin-2016-1

 

[Fanofearth]

How is this any different than what Karma Automotive is doing with BMW? If you replace BMW with Corvette (GM) aren't both the same business model? This should serve as a lesson in owning proprietary technology.

There is no doubt in my mind that Henrik could out design anyone at Karma Automotive. This could open Pandora's box and we could see several new PT's in the Karma platform.

 

[carnutdr]

this old news for Bob Lutz sold his interest in the project a year or so and they did build two cars. I do not thin this is new but just an old story rehashed.
I could be wrong and would like to see it but they use a supercharged engine and remove the brace connecting the shock tower and weakens front end and in my opinion that is a bad move for stability of a car without a supercharger would keep the brace between the strut towers and that chev NA engine in a Corvette give 30 MPG on highway.

 

[Dave_Car_Guy]

@carnutdr: no this is not old news being re-hashed, as this is straight from the Detroit Auto show with Henrik Fisker and Bob Lutz and Gilbert Villarreal announcing a new company together. This is the first time Henrik has ever lent his name or work to the VL Destino project (Now VLF to include the F in Fisker)

@Fanofearth: it is not the same as what Karma is doing with BMW. In fact, if you read the announcement closely, they are saying this will be an entirely "new version" of the Destino. In other words, it isn't going to use old, repurposed Karma cars, nor new bodies from Karma. Obviously, they couldn't do that without a supply agreement from the new Karma Automotive, which clearly they don't have.

So, powersource, it should not be two companies with the same bodies. This is a new car company trying to make custom "bespoke" cars with existing engines, but probably not a chassis from other companies. That is what Fisker Coachbuild was doing back in 2006, but in the case of the Latigo and Tramonto, they were using enough of the underlying "donor" car that they were not required to do crash testing, EPA testing, etc. The cars in those cases stayed registered as the underlying car (BMW or Mercedes). This new VLF "sounds" like they are going the next step, to manufacture an entire car, although they will outsource the engine.

That's my take on it so far. More to come from the Detroit Auto show!

 

[non sequitur]

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000476882&play=1

 

[Nikon]

After watching the video it seems as if the VLF Destino will be based on the Karma. My take is that they are probably buying used Karma's. There was a rumor in April 2013 that there were 100 Karma's sitting at a warehouse in Europe. Maybe they bought these cars from FA and are using them for the first year run? I do not think FA has much use for these old 2012 vehicles.

 

[Dave_Car_Guy]

After watching the video it seems as if the VLF Destino will be based on the Karma. My take is that they are probably buying used Karma's. There was a rumor in April 2013 that there were 100 Karma's sitting at a warehouse in Europe. Maybe they bought these cars from FA and are using them for the first year run? I do not think FA has much use for these old 2012 vehicles.

That video won't play for me... but I find it highly unlikely that VLF would attempt to build a business with a maximum number of cars to be sold limited to 100. Moreover, any existing cars (and all inventory) were all sold to the new Karma Automotive in bankruptcy. Read again the news item that says it will be an "All new" Destino. Maybe it will be loosely based on the original Fisker concept, but like I said above... we shall know more from the Detroit Auto show over the next few days. Maybe the Destino is the gateway car to the Force1, which was supposed to be the ultimate goal, only slightly distracted by the Aston Martin legal action.

 

[carnutdr]

I played video and this is fresh not a rehash of the last two years.
the reports in 2015 was that Bob Lutz sold out his interest in Destino to Gilbert Villarreal who than dropped the concept. it sounds like the two with Mr. Fisker are resurrecting the arrangement. there was a time when this project first started they were trying to buy existing Fiskers that were in private hands or from car auctions.
They may have one hundred cars lined up and can make molds of the body etc and produce the entire car in Detroit area. It will be interesting to see the results. From the two Destino's previously built they now way about 4,000 lbs not 5000 lbs with the electric drive train.
I believe the road test of the car was in Car and driver or road and Track but can't recall but did read it and the performance was exhilarating from the write up.

 

[Dave_Car_Guy]

They may have one hundred cars lined up and can make molds of the body etc and produce the entire car in Detroit area.

Not to beat this horse to death, but that just can't happen. They can't "make molds" of another company's intellectual property (The Karma body, its technology, its design, all belong to Wanxiang and Karma Automotive now). So once agin, I point out that they have PUBLICLY stated, that this will be a new design. Another words, the new Destino will NOT use old Karma shells. The Wall Street journal quoted them as saying it will be a "redesigned" Destino. the new part is that now they have Henrik on the team, instead of just using up old excess Karma shells. It still seems as if the final end-game is actually the Force1, the concept which was slated to be unveiled in Detroit before Aston Martin threatened legal action.

 

[non sequitur]

I had some trouble playing the video today also, but after impatiently clicking on it a few times it did play. It has Henrik and Lutz being interviewed in front of one of the refreshed Destinos we saw 2 years ago, though they say Henrik will be involved in keeping it "aesthetically fresh". No evidence of what that new look will be though, all I see in the piece is a 2012 Karma with some tweaks.

$200K for a gas guzzler I can buy for under $60K now seems a little nuts. It seems like Henrik and Lutz's significant combined experience would have more utility in something other than sticking a corvette engine in a 2012.

Can you imagine how smashed up the front fascia would get with a rocket engine in the car?

 

[PowerSource]

Well if they remove the inverters you will likely also get double the trunk space.

Also you get a carbon fiber roof and the vehicle only weighs 4300lbs. One of the lighter luxury sedans out there.

I can't get over how ugly the center console looks with that plasticky auto shift knob and the relocated cup holders. Was sorta hoping for a paddle shift version that was integrated with the PRNDL. Or at the very least a full 7 speed manual.

Will be interesting to see what they do with the CIU. Lutz uses an iPad solution in the VIA trucks. For 200k+ the infotainment should have VLF specific customization.

 

[Nin ja]

Well if they remove the inverters you will likely also get double the trunk space.

Also you get a carbon fiber roof and the vehicle only weighs 4300lbs. One of the lighter luxury sedans out there.

I can't get over how ugly the center console looks with that plasticky auto shift knob and the relocated cup holders. Was sorta hoping for a paddle shift version that was integrated with the PRNDL. Or at the very least a full 7 speed manual.

Will be interesting to see what they do with the CIU. Lutz uses an iPad solution in the VIA trucks. For 200k+ the infotainment should have VLF specific customization.

Are they selling those VIA trucks? There was a lot of fuss and then nothing -- i was wondering is Lutz made money on that.

BTW I'm not so concerned about using a chevy engine , i just wish they focus on the sunset version hardtop, like the Z4 , for 200K, that would make sense.

 

[Dave_Car_Guy]

Well, I stand corrected, in one aspect... clearly they are still using old stock of Karma shells/cars. I still contend they can't get more of them, unless they sign a supply agreement with the new Karma Automotive. So if no supply agreement, will they just make a limited number of Destinos as a starting shot into being bespoke manufacturer... then using the Force1 as the next car? Maybe.

 

[Fanofearth]

What stops VLF from purchasing any Karma and doing this? Saleen and several other customization shops engage in these types of activities without repercussion.

 

[WATTGAS]

I like the changes they made to the front, it looks looks like a Maserati. It's interesting they didn't eliminate the "muffler" exhaust on the sides from the Karma design. A little weird considering they have the 4 pipes out the back. The lip on the trunk and integrated 3rd brake light looks nice. I also like the flared rear bumper.

As for the interior, I agree the cup holders look a little strange. Plus, they are still too small to hold today's phablets! The glossy carbon fiber over the wood looks nice.

I wonder if $229K will get you backlit buttons on the steering wheel! :-/

 

[Dave_Car_Guy]

What stops VLF from purchasing any Karma and doing this? Saleen and several other customization shops engage in these types of activities without repercussion.

Nothing stops them from doing it, and the used Karma market would be the best place for them to get donor cars. It is exactly what Fisker Coachbuild was doing in 2006 with the BMW 6-series to make the Fisker Latigo and with the Mercedes SL to make the Fisker Tramonto. The advantage of that type of coach-build strategy is that VLF doesn't have to crash-test or EPA certify the Destino because the car still gets registered as the underlying car. But with the Latigo and Tramonto, customers would provide the underlying car. If VLF does it, it sounds like they'd just go source the Karma donor car themselves.

 

[JCMorrill]

Sorry for being dense, but since it was mentioned multiple times ... where did you guys see an interior shot (of the "fugly" shifter/cup holders)? I can't seem to find that picture and I played the video twice ... ???

 

[Dave_Car_Guy]

Sorry for being dense, but since it was mentioned multiple times ... where did you guys see an interior shot (of the "fugly" shifter/cup holders)? I can't seem to find that picture and I played the video twice ... ???

There is gallery of photos on this site:

http://www.carscoops.com/2016/01/2017-vlf-destino-takes-fisker-karma-to.html

 

[Dave_Car_Guy]

BTW, I sent a note to Henrik to ask him a bit more about the Destino and he replied with the info I asked for along with an excited: just wait until you see the Force 1 tomorrow!!