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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Motor Trend just did a "real world" test to verify the 265-mile range the EPA gave to the Model S with the 85kwh battery pack. In their testing, they found the range to be 238 miles, with most of that driving being done at highway speeds. I think this is interesting, since pretty much all Karma owners in their 'real lives' beat the 32-mile EPA range given to the Karma - some by as much as 30-40%.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1208_2012_tesla_model_s_test_and_range_verification/viewall.html
 

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SoCalGuy said:
Motor Trend just did a "real world" test to verify the 265-mile range the EPA gave to the Model S with the 85kwh battery pack. In their testing, they found the range to be 238 miles, with most of that driving being done at highway speeds. I think this is interesting, since pretty much all Karma owners in their 'real lives' beat the 32-mile EPA range given to the Karma - some by as much as 30-40%.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1208_2012_tesla_model_s_test_and_range_verification/viewall.html
Still, 238 miles is pretty impressive. I have a 90-mile roundtrip commute and I would not even have to charge the car every day (although I would probably plug it in every night anyway).
 

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Weird Fishes said:
0-60 in 3.9 seconds is wicked! I just wish the car had better styling.
... and a better interior.

(Though I'd still need a range-extended vehicle here, because there just aren't charging networks in Utah and Idaho.)
 

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Imaging is Fisker and Musk would of stuck together, wicked speed with styling ;-)) Somethings are not meant to be - life's about trade-off and hopefully with out regrets ;-)

If Virginia did not have such stupid car tax rules, I probably own both :cool:
 

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Didn't they try to work together? Which was the car, Henrik Fisker has designed for tesla?


Stefan
 

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Stefan said:
Didn't they try to work together? Which was the car, Henrik Fisker has designed for tesla?


Stefan
I think they were working on the model S .. Code name white-something???
 

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PHP:
[quote=Nin ja]
[quote=Stefan]
Didn't they try to work together? Which was the car, Henrik Fisker has designed for tesla?
Stefan
[/quote]

I think they were working on the model S .. Code name white-something??? 

[/quote]

They were and the breakup was less than amicable:  http://goo.gl/QE7ZV

The Karma body and handling with a Tesla-S drivetrain would be my (wet) dream car.
 

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AnOutsider said:
Add a bit more interior room or make it a coupe and I'm in board
You know, it would be cool if Fisker makes a 2dr coupe version of the karma with larger doors - that would increase the ease of entry exit and remove the need for the use of the back seat like the Maserati gran tourismo - just an idea - thoughs ?
 

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85kw battery?

I am just reading up on your comments about the tesla s. But I can not get past the idea that a battery bigger than 20kw is compleet nonsens... A standard soccet (plug) can only deliver 20amp max. That means the loading time is minimum 5 hours (closer to 6 in practise) for a 20kw battery...now and untill the end of time...! So no matter what great inventions might come that's it...
40kw min 10hours
60kw min 15 hours
85kw min 21.25 hours! 25.5 hours if you wan't it realy full...!
A day only has 24hours yes... when are you gonna drive it?
Further more if you drive every day and use up a 20kw battery, that means 7300kwh each year! That means 30 to 35 solarpanels 240wp to cover that energy... or about 150 panels for the 85kw battery...!
My opinion EV is just have a car ...
Even if it were an option to make a special raely heavy soccet to load your car...are you gonna be the one to tell your wife she can't cook while loading because the main fuse will blow?
 

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I have my S, and the way I drive, I get about 210 miles. That's disappointing, but I think if I did a long distance trip (with lots of highway), it would be better. This is why the karma originally appealed to me.., I'd like a contingency plan for the times I need to drive further than 210-230 miles. Ah well...



I am just reading up on your comments about the tesla s. But I can not get past the idea that a battery bigger than 20kw is compleet nonsens... A standard soccet (plug) can only deliver 20amp max. That means the loading time is minimum 5 hours (closer to 6 in practise) for a 20kw battery...now and untill the end of time...! So no matter what great inventions might come that's it...
40kw min 10hours
60kw min 15 hours
85kw min 21.25 hours! 25.5 hours if you wan't it realy full...!
A day only has 24hours yes... when are you gonna drive it?
Further more if you drive every day and use up a 20kw battery, that means 7300kwh each year! That means 30 to 35 solarpanels 240wp to cover that energy... or about 150 panels for the 85kw battery...!
My opinion EV is just have a car ...
Even if it were an option to make a special raely heavy soccet to load your car...are you gonna be the one to tell your wife she can't cook while loading because the main fuse will blow?
First night I owned the car, I drained the battery to only 2 miles of range remaining (talk about nerve wracking!). I plugged in around 730, and checked on the car around 245 when I randomly woke up and the car was full. This was only a charge to standard range mode though.

Tesla has a calculator here http://www.teslamotors.com/charging#/calculator -- I think your math might be off though. With a standard 110 outlet, full is closer to 65-70 hours by their calculator. Step up to a 240 @ 24 amps and its only 16. 9.5 hours for me with a 240 @ 40 amps (electrician out it in for 710 bucks).

My wife cooks and the dryer runs with no issue.
 

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I have my S, and the way I drive, I get about 210 miles. That's disappointing, but I think if I did a long distance trip (with lots of highway), it would be better. This is why the karma originally appealed to me.., I'd like a contingency plan for the times I need to drive further than 210-230 miles. Ah well...
210 is EXACTLY what I am seeing, as the projected range for mixed driving is always right around 70% of nominal for our Model S. I did notice that with only highway driving it is a higher percentage, but I haven't driven the Model S enough to calibrate.

I decided to scope out what charging would be required for a trip to Disneyland. From my home it is:

153 miles to Harris Ranch
269 miles to Tejon Ranch
396 miles to Disneyland

That means I would have to stop at both Harris Ranch and Tejon Ranch on the way there, charge in Anaheim before the return trip and visit both superchargers on the way back.

EVer clearly wins for road trips. :exclamation:
 

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I am just reading up on your comments about the tesla s. But I can not get past the idea that a battery bigger than 20kw is compleet nonsens... A standard soccet (plug) can only deliver 20amp max. That means the loading time is minimum 5 hours (closer to 6 in practise) for a 20kw battery...now and untill the end of time...! So no matter what great inventions might come that's it...
40kw min 10hours
60kw min 15 hours
85kw min 21.25 hours! 25.5 hours if you wan't it realy full...!
A day only has 24hours yes... when are you gonna drive it?
Further more if you drive every day and use up a 20kw battery, that means 7300kwh each year! That means 30 to 35 solarpanels 240wp to cover that energy... or about 150 panels for the 85kw battery...!
My opinion EV is just have a car ...
Even if it were an option to make a special raely heavy soccet to load your car...are you gonna be the one to tell your wife she can't cook while loading because the main fuse will blow?
You don't really need to fill up the battery every day, you just need to replace the power you used that day. On a typical commute, that is going to be 40 KWH or less, which is easily achievable with overnight charging. Even with my extra long 90-mile daily commute, overnight charging would be sufficient. In addition, most of that time would be when you (and your wife) are asleep so unless your wife is sleep cooking, you should be fine.
 

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210 is EXACTLY what I am seeing, as the projected range for mixed driving is always right around 70% of nominal for our Model S.

Much has been made of the Karma range being closer to 35miles than the optimal drive 50. It has been very disappointing for some owners. Is the same being expressed on the Tesla owner forums?
 

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210 is EXACTLY what I am seeing, as the projected range for mixed driving is always right around 70% of nominal for our Model S. I did notice that with only highway driving it is a higher percentage, but I haven't driven the Model S enough to calibrate.
Yeah, most of my trips have been local. I think stop and go really kills things. When I accelerate I can hit 500-650 Wh per mile... If I keep it in the 300 Wh per mile range, I guess I should be able to get closer to 240, which would be acceptable. Hard to do in normal traffic unless you glide from lights though.

EVer clearly wins for road trips. :exclamation:
Definitely. As I said, having extended range for "those times" is partially why the karma interested me. My ideal would be about 180-200 real world electric miles, which an efficient on-board generator for anything over that -- though, I'd even take 20MPG if it meant not being stuck charging somewhere (or worse).

In addition, most of that time would be when you (and your wife) are asleep so unless your wife is sleep cooking, you should be fine.
Perhaps I'm naive (or it's an issue with older homes/wiring), but we have no issues with the car charging at any time of the day. Is cooking and charging really an issue? If so, it should be an issue with ANY car right? Karma, Focus, Volt etc...

Much has been made of the Karma range being closer to 35miles than the optimal drive 50. It has been very disappointing for some owners. Is the same being expressed on the Tesla owner forums?
I haven't seen much griping myself, but for me personally, it's a disappointment. When the EPA said 265 I thought "OK, so that's the REALISTIC number... I can live with that". 210 would make me nervous on trips to NY and NJ. Granted, as above, I could probably increase that by slowing down, turning off HVAC and dumping some passengers... but come on...
 

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210 is EXACTLY what I am seeing, as the projected range for mixed driving is always right around 70% of nominal for our Model S. I did notice that with only highway driving it is a higher percentage, but I haven't driven the Model S enough to calibrate.

I decided to scope out what charging would be required for a trip to Disneyland. From my home it is:

153 miles to Harris Ranch
269 miles to Tejon Ranch
396 miles to Disneyland

That means I would have to stop at both Harris Ranch and Tejon Ranch on the way there, charge in Anaheim before the return trip and visit both superchargers on the way back.

EVer clearly wins for road trips. :exclamation:
Agreed, but another option is to get a trailer with extra batteries, a gas-powered generator and lots of storage space to convert your EV to EVer on long journeys. Click on the image below for the full article.

 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I wonder if our driving styles are similar. I drive on average 42 miles with the Karma in all electric and that includes a bit of hill up and down driving. Will be in SoCal for the next 1.5 weeks so will have more time to play with the range/speed combinations.
 
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