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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What will be the specs of the next generation Karma? I have seen all sorts of speculation. Thoughts and predictions?

From what I have read on the forum and hear from Fisker personnel here are my predictions:

1. Carryover engine and motors
2. New center stack
3. Different wheels
4. $115,000 starting price
5. 350 mile range
6. More powerful solar panel
7. 7kw plug charging
8. less interior noise from the engine and surroundings
9. more custom colors and interiors

Am I missing anything?
 

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Deep Ocean in ATL
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In the near term, I would imagine not many changes, but some improvements. Not sure the technology for the an improved solar panel is in the works. It adds more weight than range. The solar panel works well for its intended use. Lighter rims would save on weight, and may get closer to the 350 miles over all.

An improvement in Battery range would be more desirable. Oddly, there was a desire to have the VW diesel 2.0 turbo in place of the GM ICE for more generator torque, at a lower rpm. Glad that didn't happen.

In the near term, Kama will be better, but similar. Karma Automotive will have to step and catch up for the two years of lost to technology.
 

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I think it will be nearly identical except for new nav/CIU interface.

The biggest challenge will be making the software interface current rather than 7 year old technology.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I think it will be nearly identical except for new nav/CIU interface.

The biggest challenge will be making the software interface current rather than 7 year old technology.

I have grown quite fond of the flat graphics on the center console. They have actually come back into style now!

Who will actually buy a next generation Karma?
 

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I will 100% buy a new one. I can't wait to drive it 15k - 20k miles a year with full warranty coverage and dealer support throughout the country.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I will 100% buy a new one. I can't wait to drive it 15k - 20k miles a year with full warranty coverage and dealer support throughout the country.
Yea what a bummer that the CSP warranty is only good for as long as you have funds. Once those funds are depleted there is no warranty for any of the work that was completed under the program.

I am not holding my breath for the new warranty, as I heard it will be double digit thousands.
 

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I am not holding my breath for the new warranty, as I heard it will be double digit thousands.
From what I've heard, directly from people who would know, is that it will be dramatically less than that, and less even than I would have expected/hoped for. I'm anxious to hear the details in January like everyone else but I'm confident in my earlier statement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
From what I've heard, directly from people who would know, is that it will be dramatically less than that, and less even than I would have expected/hoped for. I'm anxious to hear the details in January like everyone else but I'm confident in my earlier statement.
The information i heard was that each vehicle would be separately certified based on the work that has been done. Could be a sliding price point based on what fixes have been applied.

Also heard that they want to keep a price premium on the CPO vehicles opposed to customer vehicles. This info came from an employee of the company.

Care to share any further details?
 

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Karma has lost at least 5 years in R&D. Just got P85D for my wife and it is no contest - that car is miles ahead of Karma in everything - except its looks. The silliness of having different modules in the car programmed separately, inability to use the touch display in any meaningful manner, slow acceleration and heavy weight makes Karma a bit of a charming old dinosaur. I think we should enjoy the car for what it is and not expect great things from the future.
 

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In the near term, I would imagine not many changes, but some improvements. Not sure the technology for the an improved solar panel is in the works. It adds more weight than range. The solar panel works well for its intended use. Lighter rims would save on weight, and may get closer to the 350 miles over all.

An improvement in Battery range would be more desirable. Oddly, there was a desire to have the VW diesel 2.0 turbo in place of the GM ICE for more generator torque, at a lower rpm. Glad that didn't happen.

In the near term, Kama will be better, but similar. Karma Automotive will have to step and catch up for the two years of lost to technology.
As a former original Fisker engineer there was much debate on the solar panel in 2009. The solar panel is one of the most asinine 'innovations' on the vehicle. A solar panel with optimal sun strike is 20% efficient at high noon with full sun exposure. The Karma panel is rated for 150W which would generate 30W. Of course the angle of the Karma roof is far from optimal so count on 15W max being produced for an hour at high noon and 3W to 12W in non-optimal conditions.

If you look at the complexity and weight it simply is not worth it. If they include this on the relaunch vehicle it shows how out of touch the company is with the realities of solar technology. Originally the panel was supposed to charge the traction pack thankfully they gave up on that idea after it was discovered that only 70W would be boosted after 12 hours of sun. About the equivalent of 16% of one mile traveled in the Karma.

The most efficient solar panels (for satellites) are 35% efficient or so and cost about $10000 per square foot. It is a stupid waste of money. Put the panels on your house.

With all this being said a small Solar Panel to cool the cabin makes a lot of sense but surely does not require an expensive solar roof as implemented in Karma 1. My 2 cents as an engineer.
 

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Deep Ocean in ATL
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So true. The Solar panel is more of a marketing and environmental talking point than an engineering coup. Same with the recycled wood. I would guess its cost and weight didn't make practical. I was told it originally was to be an option, but they couldn't get gain economies of scale in such low volumes, so the price was added to the base.

That said, the solar panel supply power to the internal fans does keep the cabin cool in sunlight. One may have to "trust" the estimate of power back to the battery of 100+ miles a year.

I like the solar panel, but would not have ordered as $5000 option.
 

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So true. The Solar panel is more of a marketing and environmental talking point than an engineering coup. Same with the recycled wood. I would guess its cost and weight didn't make practical. I was told it originally was to be an option, but they couldn't get gain economies of scale in such low volumes, so the price was added to the base.

That said, the solar panel supply power to the internal fans does keep the cabin cool in sunlight. One may have to "trust" the estimate of power back to the battery of 100+ miles a year.

I like the solar panel, but would not have ordered as $5000 option.
The recycled wood actually serves a useful purpose and ushered in a new standard in the auto industry. FA was the first to use this open pore type of wood and many other car companies like FCA, Diamler have went to a similar natural wood. Previously, most car companies added thick lacquer and other chemicals to bring out wood grain.

The Solar Panel does more damage than good, due to the heavy weight of the panel it probably reduces efficiency more than helps it. The manufacturing process Asola Solar uses to create just the curved glass portion consumes more energy than the solar panels in aggregate will produce when deployed. A few years ago the engineers calculated ROI on the Solar Panel and it was something like 475 years per car.

The same re circulation fan can be powered by a 15 watt panel 1/10th the size. The sad thing is Fisker Automotive at the time thought this was a great innovation. I really hope that New Fisker does not share these illusions and ditches the solar roof idea. These smoke and mirror type of activities are what killed the company previously.
 

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Like the "ditching" the solar panel idea. Inefficiency is obvious and with only 2000 +/_ "originals" out there, it will give us a marketing advantage in the resale world. Oh, I'm not selling. I like this quirky toy :)
 

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Deep Ocean in ATL
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Thanks F222. Not debating the engineering point of view. Just saying there is another side of the story....has nothing to do with engineering or efficiency. It is design, uniqueness -- things that differentiate Karma from other cars. IMHO, when Fisker and Tesla ventured into the EV realm, they couldn't "mossy" into the mix with a mundane vehicle. They had to have something compelling. That is what Hendrick was trying to do the the Karma and the Model S (before he departed ways with Elon Musk).

For my part, had I walked into the dealer here in Atlanta and saw the Cadillac ELR Sedan, it would be still sitting on the lot. The Karma was captivating -- Solar roof and all. As a buyer, it wasn't how efficient it was. I am not an Engineer, but knowledgeable enough to know the solar panel can't power the car. So I was happy with the cabin cooling and ~ 100 miles charge a year. It was another "wow" factor added to the "Karma's hips that would make a Kardashian blush" -- not sure they help the drag coefficient.

Car sales people always say: If you get them to the test drive, 90% of the time it's SOLD... the body, interior and even the solar panel got to me the Test Drive.
 

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Elon Musk is an engineer first and foremost. He does things that have solid engineering credibility. Design is great but the Karma could use some hardcore engineering to get it to the next level. IF they depend on gimmicks like last time.....

Society has progressed passed car sales gimmicks.
 

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I beg to differ. IMHO, the silly Falcon Wing doors on the Tesla X are a true gimmick. The idea, they say is that you can get into real tight parking spaces and your rear doors will still open. What kind of an idiot will take a car that costs $160K and park it within inches of minivans and trucks? OK, you can open the rear doors OK, but what about the front doors in those tight spots and also the front and rear doors of others cars parked side by side your car within inches? You got it!!!. Dings, bangs and dents are the result. So, all car companies, Mr. Elon Musk included, use gimmicks and silly gadgets or design cues to get the public to buy the car and to add a wow factor. The solar roof is much more of a design uniqueness (irrespective of functionality) than are the so called rear falcon doors of the Tesla Model X. Good luck opening those in a real downpour or in Ice rain conditions when the car has been sitting out all night and covered in a thick sheet of ice. Practical, my back side. It is the most useless and impractical gimmick anyone can design. I am an engineer by the way, lol.
 
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