[AnOutsider]

A serious question here (not just harping on about Fisker's woes): If Fisker does go under, what happens to cars on the lots? Do dealers mark em down (or up) and move to get rid of them? Is the inventory returns to Fisker? If so, what then?

 

[Weird Fishes]

Once the cars are sold to a dealer, then they belong to the dealer--not Fisker. So I would imagine that if Fisker Automotive does not survive, each individual dealer will make decisions according to what best serves the needs of their dealership.

The better question is why are you so concerned about this at this time? There is no evidence that Fisker Automotive is closing its doors any time in the immediate future. Are you hoping that you'll be able to get a sweet deal if Fisker does go under? If so, that makes me wonder how many people are doing the same thing--hanging out on the sidelines, hoping to buy a Fisker at a greatly reduced price. If all those people just stepped up to the plate and made the investment in the car, Fisker would be in a better position; owners would be in a better position and those who had been waiting would have a great car already!

 

[Fabulist]

I don't think that a car as complex as a Karma is a particularly sweet deal at any price without a company to back it up. This is definitely not a shade tree tinkerer's car.

 

[AnOutsider]

Once the cars are sold to a dealer, then they belong to the dealer--not Fisker. So I would imagine that if Fisker Automotive does not survive, each individual dealer will make decisions according to what best serves the needs of their dealership.

The better question is why are you so concerned about this at this time? There is no evidence that Fisker Automotive is closing its doors any time in the immediate future. Are you hoping that you'll be able to get a sweet deal if Fisker does go under? If so, that makes me wonder how many people are doing the same thing--hanging out on the sidelines, hoping to buy a Fisker at a greatly reduced price. If all those people just stepped up to the plate and made the investment in the car, Fisker would be in a better position; owners would be in a better position and those who had been waiting would have a great car already!

How is why I'm asking the question a better question? If you must know, I was in communication with my local dealer that I had a test drive with in the past. He was going through their inventory and mentioned some promo they had (drive the karma and turn it in). Then he checked with Fisker and noted that the program (lease I assume) had been discontinued. Leases being what they are, I wondered WHY it had been discontinued, and then wondered what would happen to the cars if the manufacturer went under and/or didn't want them back.

As for a deal? Sure, at 60, MAYBE 70k, I'd take a karma, but I personally wouldn't buy it at the MSRP. At that price point, it would make a good replacement for the A6, and be mostly electric around town and for the short jaunts my wife makes. for longer range, it has the extender. Naturally, it still would depend on the state of the company and such.

As for buyers on the fence, perhaps they feel the same way. Could be price. Could be them wanting to see if reported issues get fixed (and publicly addressed so they know its fixed). I think someone mentioned an update in march. It would be good to see a review in a magazine on the karma then and now. Might spark some interest.

I don't think that a car as complex as a Karma is a particularly sweet deal at any price without a company to back it up. This is definitely not a shade tree tinkerer's car.

Definitely not, but with some critical mass in cars on the road, some aftermarket stuff could pop up. Who knows.

 

[dennis]

I believe that potential Karma buyers are sitting on the sidelines because they are unsure of both the state of the company and the state of the car. Fisker has publicly stated they are seeking investment from a strategic partner. They need that to convince potential buyers that they will survive longer term. And as you suggested they need to establish that the issues with the car have been fixed. As far as I am concerned, they have been. Since getting the 510 software several months ago my Karma has been 100% glitch-free.

 

[doug]

I think someone mentioned an update in march. It would be good to see a review in a magazine on the karma then and now. Might spark some interest.

I don't know what they have planned in March. But that's basically been my thinking; that they could update something on the car enough to tick over the next model year and give the auto journalists a reason for a second look. A positive review from a prominent journalist is more effective than paying for a "Cars Are Hard" ad campaign. Hopefully they'd sell more cars, but more importantly rebuild reputation and repair the brand, which would make them more attractive to a strategic partner.

 

[Nin ja]

What we have today in the Karma is a supercar design at a reasonable price , but lacks power, quality and function from the marketing and expectation. To make matters even worse, an inconsistent dealership strategy that does not know how to sell a high end car and does not have the staying power to build the brand.

My suggestion to Fisker is to consider what it means to be a luxury brand and work towards that end. Make the Karma exclusive, make the Fisker brand exclusive. Produce fast cars, with great millage using a PHEV design; Make the product high end at a great price point. Do not allow the cars to get discounted, it will only serve to kill the brand even faster. Put the cars in the hands of high end dealers that sell Audi's Ferraris, Astons' etc and have Fisker represent a conscious alternative. That's the promise and expectation I had when I bought the car. It was a work in progress, i know, but the execution to date has been poor. As Fabulist said, the car is complex!

IMHO - A quick way to get back in the game is to build the Sunset, make the Karma a 2 dr coupe, have it lose some weight, tune the 0-60 performance for under 5.5 sec. Add some trunk space, remove the glass cover to the battery and put a compartment there. Add some trunk space and get Valmet to put the car together better as they put the boxters- Oh yeah fix the software and make sure it's visible in sunlight -- that's my hope! ;-)

 

[AnOutsider]

Nin Ja, as I understand it, Fisker is doing at least part of your proposal. I've only ever seen bmw and jag-type dealers selling the cars. FWIW, the dealer I worked with seem to be on top of things and very professional/courteous.

As for the last paragraph... That's a lot haha. Personally, if they tuned the performance on the current karma and made the command screen/underlying software rock solid, I would return to seriously considering one (not an outright buy, but it would be back in the options section). As it stands, like you said, I don't feel I'm getting what I (feel like I've) paid for.

 

[Weird Fishes]

How is why I'm asking the question a better question? If you must know, I was in communication with my local dealer that I had a test drive with in the past. He was going through their inventory and mentioned some promo they had (drive the karma and turn it in). Then he checked with Fisker and noted that the program (lease I assume) had been discontinued. Leases being what they are, I wondered WHY it had been discontinued, and then wondered what would happen to the cars if the manufacturer went under and/or didn't want them back.

As for a deal? Sure, at 60, MAYBE 70k, I'd take a karma, but I personally wouldn't buy it at the MSRP. At that price point, it would make a good replacement for the A6, and be mostly electric around town and for the short jaunts my wife makes. for longer range, it has the extender. Naturally, it still would depend on the state of the company and such.

As for buyers on the fence, perhaps they feel the same way. Could be price. Could be them wanting to see if reported issues get fixed (and publicly addressed so they know its fixed). I think someone mentioned an update in march. It would be good to see a review in a magazine on the karma then and now. Might spark some interest.



Definitely not, but with some critical mass in cars on the road, some aftermarket stuff could pop up. Who knows.

I'm sorry. I think my initial response sounded a little...a lot?...judgemental and peevish. I didn't intend it to come across like that. My reaction was based on my impression that this car seems to attract soooo much criticism--much of it overstated or just plain unwarranted--from those who do not own the car.

In fact, I arrived in this forum as just that: a non-owner who liked the looks of the Karma and had anxiously awaited its arrival but who was disturbed by the negative things the press and others were saying about the car. I read the posts here, asked questions, test drove the car several times and finally bought my Karma 4-5 months ago. It is, hands down, the most fun I've ever had in a car.

I've had a few minor issues--a heat shield that rattled, ball bearings in the wheels that made a clicking noise when making a hard turn, and some wind noise in the backseat at freeway speeds. Those are the only problems I've had with my Karma, and all three were relatively quick fixes at my dealer.

I've been totally pleased with my Karma. My only regret is that I delayed the purchase for months while I tried to figure out what was going to happen with Fisker and whether or not there would be deals to be had toward the end of 2012. I wish I had not waited so long. And now, as an owner, I wish everyone else would jump in because the water's just fine!

 

[Stefan]

My dealer sells Ford and Volvo ... But they are doing great in service.

There is no fisker Marketing at all! I've never been contacted for any event or get together. They seem to sit there, waiting for customers passing by and fell in love with a show room car....

Seeing the brand loosing reputation, IMHO, it would be wise, to invest in a campaign to get the stock out on the road....

Just parking two or three Karmas on a Saturday at the world famous Kö, would flood some car enthusiasts into the show room!!!

(Kö: Probably the most expensive shopping mile in greater Dusseldorf area, with all the high value fashion and style brands, as well as jewelers, where people are walking there wifes)




Stefan
German Karma Forum
www.karma-forum.de

 

[Michael]

my dealer sells aston martin and koenigsegg hows much is the msrp price for a sport karma? here in europe it cost alot more than in the states

 

[doug]

...finally bought my Karma 4-5 months ago. It is, hands down, the most fun I've ever had in a car.

I've had a few minor issues--a heat shield that rattled, ball bearings in the wheels that made a clicking noise when making a hard turn, and some wind noise in the backseat at freeway speeds. Those are the only problems I've had with my Karma, and all three were relatively quick fixes at my dealer.

I've been totally pleased with my Karma. My only regret is that I delayed the purchase for months while I tried to figure out what was going to happen with Fisker and whether or not there would be deals to be had toward the end of 2012. I wish I had not waited so long. And now, as an owner, I wish everyone else would jump in because the water's just fine!

I think by five months ago most of the bugs were worked out and the common issues had known fixes. So if you have a dealer that's on top of things, you can get a reliable car. (This dealer in this area shares the lot with McLaren, though under a separate roof. When I stopped by, the staff there was pleasant and seemed about as knowledgeable as you could reasonably expect without being at all snooty.)

However, the state of the company has felt progressively less stable since the beginning of last summer. If you're risk adverse, I wouldn't exactly recommend jumping in the water while the sharks are circling. I would say it's worth waiting just a couple months to see how things pan out.

On Feb 1, the A123 sale is supposed to close, and Fisker has indicated they have enough cars through at least Q1. So by the end of March we might have a better idea of where things are going. Restarting the production line likely won't be an easy feat. Fisker has stated they need to renegotiate contracts with A123 and Valmet. Though, I'd expect contracts need to be renegotiated with a variety suppliers. This is much harder when your volume is low.

 

[svp6]

.... tune the 0-60 performance for under 5.5 sec.

+1! I would gladly give up 20 miles of range for real performance - or at least have the option to do so - sport mode anyone?

 

[Nin ja]

+1! I would gladly give up 20 miles of range for real performance - or at least have the option to do so - sport mode anyone?

I don't know if range is the issue, considering the engine is on in sports mode. better tuning and less weight is the answer, heck, it would probably get more range in Battery only mode - for starters we could remove the useless solar panel.

 

[dennis]

A serious question here (not just harping on about Fisker's woes): If Fisker does go under, what happens to cars on the lots? Do dealers mark em down (or up) and move to get rid of them? Is the inventory returns to Fisker? If so, what then?

Here are some official words from Fisker today about the status of strategic partner discussions:

"There has been interest from different people on three continents in terms of strategic alliances and partnerships," said Fisker spokesman Roger Ormisher. "There are ongoing negotiations and discussions. Different partners want different things from any partnership or alliance, and approach the talks from different angles," Ormisher said. "We are looking at what will help us bring Atlantic to market in the best possible time frame." He said the company's hybrid drive train technology and global sales model has attracted the interest of potential investors.

http://www.latimes.com/business/aut...e-partners-20130128,0,4808350.story?track=rss

 

[Weird Fishes]

@dennis: Thanks for posting that. It sounds like great news!