Fisker Buzz Forums banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
585 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For maximum transparency to our valued community, I must disclose that the thread "Class Action Lawsuit by Karma Deposit Holders" had to be removed after we received a formal request from Fisker Automotive.

Thanks to all who participate in our community.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,975 Posts
Wimb, on what basis is Fisker asking for removal of the thread? Unless a lawsuit has been filed I fail to see how Fisker can argue for a thread containing no proprietary information to be removed. While I may disagree with the intent of the original poster, I am concerned about arbitrary removal of threads/posts simply because they express a dissenting view. This is America - we value freedom of speech, even when we disagree with the content of said speech.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
585 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
SoCalGuy said:
Wimb, on what basis is Fisker asking for removal of the thread? Unless a lawsuit has been filed I fail to see how Fisker can argue for a thread containing no proprietary information to be removed. While I may disagree with the intent of the original poster, I am concerned about arbitrary removal of threads/posts simply because they express a dissenting view. This is America - we value freedom of speech, even when we disagree with the content of said speech.
Some proprietary details were apparently divulged in that thread. This is more than just an example of a dissenting view.

I do not plan to arbitrarily remove any content, and do plan to uphold as much free speech as possible on this site. To respect the community and provide transparency, I created this thread.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
996 Posts
Wimbledon has done a better job than some other sites (by creating this replacement thread). On some boards the Mods are all about protecting the brand and will delete threads that question the integrity of a company without any reason (i.e TMC). When I was on that board the Mod would randomly delete threads where employees posted or lock/delete threads that questioned the motives of that car company. Great to see the mods here being as transparent as possible. This "Class Action" lawsuit thread would have lasted about 12 seconds on TMC (and be deleted without explanation). This board is probably the best car forum on the internet; people can speak their minds without being beaten down by overzealous mods and fanboys. Thanks Wimbledon!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
854 Posts
smoothoperator said:
Wimbledon has done a better job than some other sites (by creating this replacement thread). On some boards the Mods are all about protecting the brand and will delete threads that question the integrity of a company without any reason (i.e TMC). When I was on that board the Mod would randomly delete threads where employees posted or lock/delete threads that questioned the motives of that car company. Great to see the mods here being as transparent as possible. This "Class Action" lawsuit thread would have lasted about 12 seconds on TMC (and be deleted without explanation). This board is probably the best car forum on the internet; people can speak their minds without being beaten down by overzealous mods and fanboys. Thanks Wimbledon!
Well I guess I'm supposed to respond to this since it's at best a misinformed assessment of TMC. TeslaMotorsClub.com is independent and separate from Tesla and we handle everything on a case by case basis. Very little is random. Much is discussed among mods before action is taken. We've certainly had our share of threads that Tesla was unhappy with and most have stayed. After about the time Martin Eberhard left the company, Tesla seems to have an unwritten rule of not letting employees (besides top marketing folks) post on TMC. That makes sense that they want to control their message (as does Fisker obviously), but Tesla should probably put that policy in their new employee handbook.

Occasionally we get a really enthusiastic new Tesla employee who posts on TMC (with no real info but that he or she is excited to be starting at the company) but is then later told by a supervisor not to do so. Those threads get taken down by request of the original poster (OP), and typically the few folks who had posted in that thread are sent a PM to explain the situation. Also on occasion someone posts some new info they heard on a visit to one of the Tesla stores that Tesla wasn't ready to make a formal announcement on. In most of those cases, the info stays but we sometimes on request edit out the name of the employee who divulged that info and again send a PM to the OP. We like to protect the little guy.

If there's a thread on some rumor we sometimes do research and even contact Tesla for clarification. If the rumor turns out not to be true, we say so and change the thread title to reflect that, though the thread remains. This is in the interest of having accurate and useful information on the forum.

I can think of one instance where actual sensitive proprietary info was posted on TMC. Tesla contacted us. They didn't demand the info be taken down but instead expressed concern about it giving an advantage to their competitors. We did a reversible soft delete of the thread to give us a change to discus the situation. Ultimately we decided to keep it deleted. I think that was the right call, but again it's case by case.

We have plenty of threads with posts where people questioned the motives of the company, complained about the lack of or quality of a feature, and were upset about pricing. We just ask that people stay civil and on topic. Off topic stuff gets split off to its own tread. Silly arguments don't even get deleted, but are often moved because again, they're off topic. We don't always get it right, but we try and I think we do ok most of the time. The challenges of a small board and a rapidly growing board are a bit different. In many ways, just as I see Fisker has some similarities to early Tesla, FiskerBuzz has some to the early TMC. I wish them all much success.


[hr]

SoCalGuy said:
Wimb, on what basis is Fisker asking for removal of the thread? Unless a lawsuit has been filed I fail to see how Fisker can argue for a thread containing no proprietary information to be removed. While I may disagree with the intent of the original poster, I am concerned about arbitrary removal of threads/posts simply because they express a dissenting view. This is America - we value freedom of speech, even when we disagree with the content of said speech.
Looking at the Google cache of it, I don't see any proprietary info that merited deletion. I just see a guy complaining about a price increase. I see a personal insult that would have been zapped out to a "snippiness" thread. Hmmm, it does seem the OP might have used a sockpuppet later in the thread and that's more serious. It's easy enough to check an IP and sockpuppets shouldn't be allowed because they hamper honest discourse. It's essentially trolling and is grounds for a permanent ban and a blocked IP address.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
996 Posts
doug said:
Well I guess I'm supposed to respond to this since it's at best a misinformed assessment of TMC. TeslaMotorsClub.com is independent and separate from Tesla and we handle everything on a case by case basis. Very little is random. Much is discussed among mods before action is taken. We've certainly had our share of threads that Tesla was unhappy with and most have stayed. After about the time Martin Eberhard left the company, Tesla seems to have an unwritten rule of not letting employees (besides top marketing folks) post on TMC. That makes sense that they want to control their message (as does Fisker obviously), but Tesla should probably put that policy in their new employee handbook.

Occasionally we get a really enthusiastic new Tesla employee who posts on TMC (with no real info but that he or she is excited to be starting at the company) but is then later told by a supervisor not to do so. Those threads get taken down by request of the original poster (OP), and typically the few folks who had posted in that thread are sent a PM to explain the situation. Also on occasion someone posts some new info they heard on a visit to one of the Tesla stores that Tesla wasn't ready to make a formal announcement on. In most of those cases, the info stays but we sometimes on request edit out the name of the employee who divulged that info and again send a PM to the OP. We like to protect the little guy.

If there's a thread on some rumor we sometimes do research and even contact Tesla for clarification. If the rumor turns out not to be true, we say so and change the thread title to reflect that, though the thread remains. This is in the interest of having accurate and useful information on the forum.

I can think of one instance where actual sensitive proprietary info was posted on TMC. Tesla contacted us. They didn't demand the info be taken down but instead expressed concern about it giving an advantage to their competitors. We did a reversible soft delete of the thread to give us a change to discus the situation. Ultimately we decided to keep it deleted. I think that was the right call, but again it's case by case.

We have plenty of threads with posts where people questioned the motives of the company, complained about the lack of or quality of a feature, and were upset about pricing. We just ask that people stay civil and on topic. Off topic stuff gets split off to its own tread. Silly arguments don't even get deleted, but are often moved because again, they're off topic. We don't always get it right, but we try and I think we do ok most of the time. The challenges of a small board and a rapidly growing board are a bit different. In many ways, just as I see Fisker has some similarities to early Tesla, FiskerBuzz has some to the early TMC. I wish them all much success.


[hr]

I am going to respond to doug since he is on this board and is the head mod and creator of TMC. It seems as if TMC's #1 goal is to protect the interests of Tesla Motors. I have asked you (both privately and publically) to delete some posts on your site to quell the hateful PM messages I have gotten from Tesla Fan Boys (I find it weird since most of these people do not even own Tesla's) You have been unresponsive, yet when Tesla contacts you, immediately you jump at will to their requests. Call a spade a spade, I have been attacked on your precious TMC board and those same trolls have come here and started to PM on this board. I have asked you to delete information on your board which has caused further "troll attacks" via PM and you have not even had the common courtesy to respond to my messages.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
854 Posts
smoothoperator said:
I am going to respond to doug since he is on this board and is the head mod and creator of TMC. It seems as if TMC's #1 goal is to protect the interests of Tesla Motors. I have asked you (both privately and publically) to delete some posts on your site to quell the hateful PM messages I have gotten from Tesla Fan Boys (I find it weird since most of these people do not even own Tesla's) You have been unresponsive, yet when Tesla contacts you, immediately you jump at will to their requests. Call a spade a spade, I have been attacked on your precious TMC board and those same trolls have come here and started to PM on this board. I have asked you to delete information on your board which has caused further "troll attacks" via PM and you have not even had the common courtesy to respond to my messages.

This forum is all about civil your forum is all about barbaric fan boys. Good Day sir
That's odd. I don't check this board that often. When I got your request to remove a specific piece of information, I immediately passed your message on to a the appropriate mods to address. Apparently it required some digging to find, but I was told some messages were edited or deleted. I don't have time to address everything personally, but I am involved in the discussions.

Ok, looking into our moderator notes your PM to me here on FiskerBuzz was sent on 7/28/2012 at 1:51pm. I got it on to the mods same day at 3:44pm. At 4:14pm one mod responded via mobile that the issue would be addressed when at a PC. At 4:55pm another mod got working on it and edited or deleted three of your posts. At 5:16pm the first mod got back and found one more post to be edited. So I believe your issue was addressed as promptly as can be expected.

We do not jump at will to Tesla's requests. They are infrequent, but when they happen, like I said, we discuss them on a case by case basis.

I appreciated and at times defended your contrarian views at TMC. However, your tone was often rather negative and confrontational, seemingly intended to rile people up. So your departure was a probably for the best. Good day to you too. :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
585 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Gentlemen, please use our private message feature to continue your discussion of the administration of another website (TMC). This thread needs to stay on topic and discuss, if necessary, the deletion of a thread on this website as formally requested by Fisker Automotive.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,975 Posts
doug said:
SoCalGuy said:
Wimb, on what basis is Fisker asking for removal of the thread? Unless a lawsuit has been filed I fail to see how Fisker can argue for a thread containing no proprietary information to be removed. While I may disagree with the intent of the original poster, I am concerned about arbitrary removal of threads/posts simply because they express a dissenting view. This is America - we value freedom of speech, even when we disagree with the content of said speech.
Looking at the Google cache of it, I don't see any proprietary info that merited deletion. I just see a guy complaining about a price increase. I see a personal insult that would have been zapped out to a "snippiness" thread. Hmmm, it does seem the OP might have used a sockpuppet later in the thread and that's more serious. It's easy enough to check an IP and sockpuppets shouldn't be allowed because they hamper honest discourse. It's essentially trolling and is grounds for a permanent ban and a blocked IP address.
The only thing I can think of as being proprietary was maybe the info on the Chinese supplier of the electric motors and the speculated costs and reliability of those motor units.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
854 Posts
SoCalGuy said:
The only thing I can think of as being proprietary was maybe the info on the Chinese supplier of the electric motors and the speculated costs and reliability of those motor units.
I missed that particular post, but isn't that info already known? I'm pretty sure there's discussion (in which I participated) about those motors in other parts of this forum. Anyhow, if it was a specific piece of info, why not edit it out or delete that particular post. Does it really require nuking the entire thread? I'm guessing Fisker mainly found the thread title embarrassing and wanted the thread taken down for that reason alone.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,975 Posts
doug said:
SoCalGuy said:
The only thing I can think of as being proprietary was maybe the info on the Chinese supplier of the electric motors and the speculated costs and reliability of those motor units.
I missed that particular post, but isn't that info already known? I'm pretty sure there's discussion (in which I participated) about those motors in other parts of this forum. Anyhow, if it was a specific piece of info, why not edit it out or delete that particular post. Does it really require nuking the entire thread? I'm guessing Fisker mainly found the thread title embarrassing and wanted the thread taken down for that reason alone.
I believe that post had some specific info (e.g. $1,500 per motor FOB China) and also made claims that Fisker knew they were shipping a faulty product (this not being a proprietary piece of info since no evidence was provided).
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top