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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I assume they mean that QTWW will not be producing the drivetrain for the Project Nina cars, which had been mentioned months ago. If Fisker has dumped Quantum altogether I am a bit worried, seeing as they were the partner to begin with.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/01/fisker-karma-hybrid-obama-waste-government-loan/1
 

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kabalah70 said:
I assume they mean that QTWW will not be producing the drivetrain for the Project Nina cars, which had been mentioned months ago. If Fisker has dumped Quantum altogether I am a bit worried, seeing as they were the partner to begin with.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/01/fisker-karma-hybrid-obama-waste-government-loan/1
Fisker does not need QTWW. Better without them....Much better. Having said that QTWW would love have Fisker Nina business.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
plugitin, that is a fairly bold statement considering Fisker Automotive would not exist without them. Care to share the reasons for your opinion?

QTWW has or had a financial stake in Fisker. The fact that they are out means less profit for them. I bought a &%*%load of QTWW stock on the hopes of Fisker taking off (to the tune of paying for almost 1.5 Karmas in capital losses, all unrealized at this point). Eventhough I would imagine QTWW still has an ownership stake in Fisker Automotive, its profits would have been more with motor production.
 

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Here is the original and much more detailed article from Automotive News:

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120123/OEM01/301239965/1186
 

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kabalah70 said:
plugitin, that is a fairly bold statement considering Fisker Automotive would not exist without them. Care to share the reasons for your opinion?

QTWW has or had a financial stake in Fisker. The fact that they are out means less profit for them. I bought a &%*%load of QTWW stock on the hopes of Fisker taking off (to the tune of paying for almost 1.5 Karmas in capital losses, all unrealized at this point). Eventhough I would imagine QTWW still has an ownership stake in Fisker Automotive, its profits would have been more with motor production.
I think you'll find the QTWW ownership in Fisker to be little or none. I prefer not to share, but I have done 2+ years worth of dd on my own. I think you're better off with AONE than QTWW as far as stock performance going forward. They have battery performance improving (i.e.. better than 50 mi). Soon you'll see 75 mi to 100mi and that will make a huge difference for Fisker Automotive and Chevy etc... Fisker will be just fine w/o QTWW.

Really, Fisker only needs (if you call it that) are the Asola Solar Panels. I'm sure you can do it elsewhere for less than 5k a roof too.
 

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plugitin said:
I think you'll find the QTWW ownership in Fisker to be little or none. I prefer not to share, but I have done 2+ years worth of dd on my own. I think you're better off with AONE than QTWW as far as stock performance going forward.
QTWW also have a company history of rabbiting off in different directions. This made me more (rather than less) doubtful about FIsker's longer-term prospects. If they have truly separated, that's probably a good thing. :D

I'm not investing in any lithium-ion battery company because that particular future is too opaque for me.
 

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Wimbledon said:
Here is the original and much more detailed article from Automotive News:

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120123/OEM01/301239965/1186
I'm confused (again). They have 2500 orders now and only 5% have cancelled?

BillyO
 

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kabalah70 said:
plugitin, that is a fairly bold statement considering Fisker Automotive would not exist without them. Care to share the reasons for your opinion?

QTWW has or had a financial stake in Fisker. The fact that they are out means less profit for them. I bought a &%*%load of QTWW stock on the hopes of Fisker taking off (to the tune of paying for almost 1.5 Karmas in capital losses, all unrealized at this point). Eventhough I would imagine QTWW still has an ownership stake in Fisker Automotive, its profits would have been more with motor production.
Kab, Quantum owns hardly any of the JV stake (ie Fisker Auto) - I remember them saying that in one of their filings (or one of Fisker's PP filings, can't remember which).

UPDATE: Found the item. It's from Quantum's latest quarterly:

"We also hold ownership interests in certain unconsolidated active businesses that are accounted for either under the equity or cost methods of accounting. These interests include: (i) a 24.9% interest in Asola Solarpower GmbH (Asola, formerly named Asola Advanced and Automotive Solar Systems GmbH), a solar module manufacturer located in Erfurt, Germany (ii) a 24.9% interest in Asola Quantum Solarpower AG (AQS), a holding company for certain divisions of Asola’s business, (iii) a 25% interest in Shigan Quantum Technologies PVT LTD (Shigan Quantum), a start-up manufacturer of fuel injectors based in New Delhi, India, (iv) a 22% interest in Power Control and Design, Inc. (PCD), a power control electronics software developer based in Newbury Park, California, and (v) less than a 1% interest in Fisker Automotive, Inc., a plug-in electric hybrid vehicle manufacturer headquartered in Anaheim, California. See Note 4 for further discussion of these businesses."

From Note 4:
"4. Strategic Investments
Investment in Fisker Automotive
On August 7, 2007, we and Fisker Coachbuild, LLC, launched a new venture, Fisker Automotive, Inc. (Fisker Automotive), to produce premium plug-in hybrid automobiles. We initially owned 62.0% of Fisker Automotive; however, Fisker Automotive has since raised a level of capital that has resulted in the dilution of our direct ownership interest to less than 1%.
In July 2011, Fisker Automotive had initial deliveries to customers of its first production vehicle, the Fisker Karma, a four door hybrid-electric premium sports sedan that incorporates our plug-in hybrid electric vehicle architecture known as Q-Drive.
On April 29, 2010, we executed a long-term production supply agreement with Fisker Automotive which, as later amended on November 8, 2010, sets forth the definitive terms pursuant to which we are the exclusive supplier of certain key sub-systems and control systems included in the Q-Drive powertrain system for the Fisker Karma production vehicle and we also receive a royalty for each Fisker Karma vehicle that incorporates our Q-Drive technology (the “Fisker Production Agreement”). The Fisker Production Agreement covers the program life of the vehicle platform and outlines minimum volumes of 45,000 vehicles over this period.

We accounted for our investment in Fisker Automotive under the equity method of accounting from the date of our initial ownership interest through the first quarter of fiscal 2011. During the second quarter of fiscal 2011, we changed the method of accounting to the cost method as a result of changes in the composition of the Fisker Automotive board of directors and the dilution of our equity interest since the initial formation of the venture such that we no longer were considered to have significant influence over Fisker Automotive; however, under both of these methodologies, our investment in Fisker Automotive has been carried at zero for all periods presented.
During the first half of fiscal 2012, we shipped production level component parts and continued to provide engineering services to support the launch of the Karma production vehicle."

Full Q can be found here:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1166380/000119312511336695/d240088d10q.htm
 

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BillyO said:
Wimbledon said:
Here is the original and much more detailed article from Automotive News:

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120123/OEM01/301239965/1186
I'm confused (again). They have 2500 orders now and only 5% have cancelled?

BillyO
I think in Fisker's peek orders last year, they we're up to around 3000 (give or take a couple of hundred). Once the EPA data was released (along with delays + neg DoE press), I believe orders feel by 'more' than 5%.

I do know there are hundreds if not thousands of buyer's on the sidelines waiting/watching for software fixes etc... before placing actual orders. I believe if Fisker actually goes public and adds to mgmt team, then you'll see even greater confidence. I think the worst is behind them now... The two new Exec's have been a huge plus. Get the DoE mess behind them and go public, and the world is their oyster. I love the Karma. I believe in this company. They'll sell between 6500 and 7500 Karma's this year.
 

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k-sweise said:
Well they have to still be supplying the solar roofs for the Nina, and there are a lot of those coming.
Given the Nina's projected price point, I doubt that the solar roof would be offered as standard, or even at all. On the Karma, it is more of stylistic element than a functional one anyway.

-- Fab.
 

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Fabulist said:
k-sweise said:
Well they have to still be supplying the solar roofs for the Nina, and there are a lot of those coming.
Given the Nina's projected price point, I doubt that the solar roof would be offered as standard, or even at all. On the Karma, it is more of stylistic element than a functional one anyway.

-- Fab.
They better have the solar roofs on them. I think it is a signature piece / statement for the car. Stirs the emotions along with the overall look of the car. Trust me....Keep the Solar Roof Fisker. Heck...try to improve on it (if possible).
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I thought it would be an option because the Prius had it as an option for 2011, but they have nixed it for 2012, so no competition on that front.
 

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plugitin said:
Fabulist said:
k-sweise said:
Well they have to still be supplying the solar roofs for the Nina, and there are a lot of those coming.
Given the Nina's projected price point, I doubt that the solar roof would be offered as standard, or even at all. On the Karma, it is more of stylistic element than a functional one anyway.

-- Fab.
They better have the solar roofs on them. I think it is a signature piece / statement for the car. Stirs the emotions along with the overall look of the car. Trust me....Keep the Solar Roof Fisker. Heck...try to improve on it (if possible).
As much as I like the solar roof's look, as a practical matter, it is not really a factor in the car's performance or range. It also probably adds a big chunk of weight to the car and complicates the safety issues related to rollover safety. It also prevents you from having more interesting roof options like sunroofs or even a panoramic roof. Given all of that, I think it may make more sense to provide a partial solar roof as an option but give the buyer the choice of what kind of roof they want on the car.

-- Fab.
 

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kabalah70 said:
I thought it would be an option because the Prius had it as an option for 2011, but they have nixed it for 2012, so no competition on that front.
In the least...keep it as an option. The cost should be much lower considering they are targeting 100k Project Nina vehicles. They need the cost to be around $3k ea. I'm psyched about the BMW engines. I really think this Nina line is going to be a monster success for Fisker, if they can just get their finances in order.
 

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plugitin said:
kabalah70 said:
I thought it would be an option because the Prius had it as an option for 2011, but they have nixed it for 2012, so no competition on that front.
In the least...keep it as an option. The cost should be much lower considering they are targeting 100k Project Nina vehicles. They need the cost to be around $3k ea. I'm psyched about the BMW engines. I really think this Nina line is going to be a monster success for Fisker, if they can just get their finances in order.
The one thing Fisker the company is good at is car design and I am sure they will find a way to incorporate the look into the roof but also provide new and more interesting options. For example, just having the solar cells arrayed around the perimeter of the roof with the center available for a sunroof would be a great compromise. Another option would be to put the solar cells on the boot lid instead of the roof.

Henrik is nothing if not creative. He will find a way, if only he can get back to designing cars rather than calling customers and apologizing for the software debacle.

-- Fab.
 

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I remember it being written somewhere but these are the best I could find in short notice.

"A curved solar roof, the largest in the industry, supplies power on even moderately sunny days to keep the interior cooling fans working and even provides a slight amount of juice to the battery pack, good for an extra 4-5 miles of range. Fisker has said many of the features on the Karma will migrate to the NINA and other Fisker models, although they will be downsized to fit the smaller, less-expensive cars."

(i'm not going back to find the link sorry)

"A curved solar roof, the largest in the industry, supplies power on even moderately sunny days to keep the interior cooling fans working and even provides a slight amount of juice to the battery pack, good for an extra 4-5 miles of range. Fisker has said many of the features on the Karma will migrate to the NINA and other Fisker models, although they will be downsized to fit the smaller, less-expensive cars."

http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/05/fisker-sees-bright-future-in-cars-with-plugs.html

So those are kind of vague, but I thought I read the plan was to keep it.

Cheers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
By the way, has anyone seen the cooling provided by the solar roof running the fans in action?
I am curious if this works or if it is a feature not currently functioning like 'remote cabin preconditioning' and the solar roof energy page?
 
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