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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My dealer (Fisker of Palm Beach) just called to tell me that the production date for my Karma is August 31st. He further indicated that production time is 3 - 5 days in the factory and another month in transit. That means delivery on or about October 1st, assuming any of this is accurate.

Has anyone else gotten a hard production date from their dealer?

BTW, my number of 737 on the list so if you're lower, delivery should be sooner.
 

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October!?! Sheeezz.... I figured that anything less than 1000 should be the end of July or very early August considering Fisker originally said they'd have all 3000 preorders "fulfilled by October". I'm #659, so I might get mine a week before yours, but still, I was hoping for end of July... guess I've gotta wait until fall.

-Brian
 

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I am Signature Edition #51 and I was told my car would be at the dealership in August in the last update a few days ago.
 

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I think what is to be learned from all of this is that any numbers that come from Fisker are total B.S. They've been saying that customers would start receiving cars in June or July, but obviously if you're #51 then that's not happening. They've also been saying all 3000 pre-orders would be fulfilled by October, and that's obviously not happening.

I just hope that all of the important numbers like the battery range and fuel range end up being true. If so, it'd be the first honest numbers from Fisker, so I'm a bit skeptical at this point. If the car ends up with just a 30 mile battery range it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

-Brian
 

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I agree. If it takes until the end of August to get to 750 cars or even 1000 considering dealer demos etc. and production began on March 21st, that equates to around 200 a month. If a Signature Edition in the 50's is not completed by mid-July, that would indicate even slower production especially considering Signature cars all have the same exterior and interior scheme. To get from 50 in mid July to 750 by the end of August sounds a little unlikely at that rate. All of these are projections anyway. There are some numbers that have already been absolutely quantified. After 2 months,they know what the current production rate is.They know how many orders have been sent to the factory. They just won't share that information with us.
 

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I hate to tell you all this, but I was told this week that the earliest we will see cars in the dealer to test drive if you didn't already order it would be August. There are 200 cars being made for delivery in August. The 100 signature cars and 100 for dealers to do demos on. For those that ordered in April (1st order run), you can expect sometime in late August or September. I was told that the second ordering cycle ended this past Sunday. Delivery estimated to be at best September! So.....If you are like me, who was number 354, but have not ordered yet because of concerns over the commitments from Fisker, and the clear lack of hitting targets, if we wait til August to do a test drive and then order, we could expect to get the car anywhere from 4-6 months post our order, thus putting it in the middle of Winter! Don't know how this beast goes in the snow, but if it's that long to get one, I'm going to wait til November to order so I get it when things thaw again and I can enjoy it every day!

All this information came from a very pleasant customer care person who was extremely honest and helpful (first time ever for Fisker in my mind) and was reached at the Fisker Consumer Affairs number of 855-347-5371. For those of you who want to talk with a pleasant, informative person, call this number. Won't promise you that you will get any concrete answers, but he was able to answer some other questions and concerns I had related to the rear headroom. I'm 6'3" tall, and in the demo they took around I felt like I was hitting the ceiling in the back seats. I was told rear headroom is only 35.6" due to the slope of the roofline. I am still one who hopes to own one of these great cars, but the longer it takes and the less real honest communication we get from Fisker (dealer told me May test drives!!!) the more I am looking at alternatives. No real way to treat people willing to shell out over $100k for a car. All the best to those who have a greater sense of patience than I do. As a relief to some of you, if you ordered the car and it comes and you don't like the looks, color combo, the way it drives, or anything else about it, I was assured once again that you would NOT have to buy the car and that you would be able to get your deposit back direct from Fisker. Now if there was some way to get a good quality picture of EVERY color on a real car from Fisker (consumer affairs group couldn't even provide that), then it'd be easier to make the final pick. Hate to choose a color combo that I think I want, wait 6 months for it to come, and then not buy it only to wait another 6 months for a replacement. Good luck everybody. Your original deposit number won't matter anymore since there's plenty of us who are waiting to see what happens.:(
 

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Interesting. My dealer recently told me they were getting their demos in June. Even at June it still makes me wonder what the hell Fisker has been doing since March 21st. I think the announcement that they started production on that date was bunk.

-Brian
 

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I wonder if Fisker have any parts that got delayed / canceled due to the Japan quake-and-tsunami...

Anyway, I would be cautious about doing a linear projection here:

If it takes until the end of August to get to 750 cars or even 1000 considering dealer demos etc. and production began on March 21st, that equates to around 200 a month.
(200 per month is a linear projection: April, May, June, July, August = 5 months, 1000 / 5 = 200.) Fisker have said repeatedly that they will start slow and ramp up. If they have made 1000 by early August, it could, for instance, be: 5 in April, 25 in May, 125 in June, 625 in July, etc. This is an exponential growth series where each month they produce five times as many as the previous month.

Now, I'm not suggesting that $n = 5 \sup \mbox{month}$ (to write it in LaTeX-ese) is the actual ramp-up equation either. It's much more likely that they make 1 per day initially, then 3, then suddenly jump to 12, then 15, for instance. Basically, work out kinks, then when it looks good, increase the pressure and find lots of new kinks, work those out, etc.

All of this will make it hard for Fisker, even with all the information, to predict when anyone's car would actually arrive. So I sympathize with them. Still, they really do owe a lot more visibility to those who have orders in....
 

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I called my dealer yesterday to ask if my production date - deposit #217, part of 1st production batch - is known, but unfortunately they couldn't tell me anything, simply because they have not been informed.

A few months ago Bernard Koehler said, in Paris, that some VIP's - so signature editions #1, #2, etc. - might be getting their car late June and 'regular' customers in July (I assume that means late July). If the production date of Soflauthor's car - #737 - is August 31 and delivery might be early October, than it still looks they are close to the schedule Koehler has mentioned. They would go from delivery of # 1 in late June/early July to #737 in early October, so 250 cars per month (more likely 150 - 250 - 350). The 200 demonstration cars - I heard many dealers ordered 3 to 4 cars - will then be built in April, May and June (with delivery in June or July).

But if the information Hokiebird got from Fisker Consumer Affairs is correct, this whole schedule has been moved back by about one month, with deliveries from the 1st order run (I am assuming these are regular cars, not the signature editions) starting in 'late August or September'.

They must be having their reasons for doing this (technical changes), it would however be nice - it has been said before - to communicate better about this. Even the dealers are being kept out of the loop. Communication is still Fisker's weak point; I haven't seen a newsletter from Fisker itself in a long time. Anyone know if Tesla did a better job in the early stages of the Roadster-production process?

About the performance: considering that every gasoline- or diesel-powered car in the world has a worse mileage than advertised and also electric cars like the Leaf do not provide the range that is advertised, I think it is safe to assume the Fisker will not get to 50 miles full-electric. If it did, Fisker would be the first company in the world to market a number that is realistic. And that itself is unrealistic.
 

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Dutch said:
About the performance: considering that every gasoline- or diesel-powered car in the world has a worse mileage than advertised and also electric cars like the Leaf do not provide the range that is advertised, I think it is safe to assume the Fisker will not get to 50 miles full-electric. If it did, Fisker would be the first company in the world to market a number that is realistic. And that itself is unrealistic.
Actually, my experience has been different. I typically get better gas mileage than the stickers claim. Last month I managed to get 22.3 mpg on a 2-way road trip in my Aston Martin which is rated for only 19mpg. I typically get over 19 on any highway trip in that car, even if I drive 85mph and like a maniac. My SUV is rated for 17mpg highway, but I've always gotten at least 17.5, but typically 18-18.5 out of it.

That being said, I still don't trust any numbers from Fisker :dodgy:

-Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I think the one unifying comment in almost every post in this thread is that Fisker's communication with committed customers is atrocious. In a number of earlier posts, I suggested that the company needs to do something tangible for those of us who have waited so long, have experienced delay after delay, and have suffered through broken commitment after broken commitment. For example, it could offer a 3% "brand loyalty" discount off list price for anyone who made a down payment and has waited over two years for the car. The cost to the company would be relatively small, and it would be a small gesture of thanks for our patience. Fisker is tarnishing its brand before the car is on the road. Unfortunate.
 

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Aaaaaaarrrrgghhhh!!! I just heard from my dealer and was told that my production date is September 19th! Holy crap! That now means I won't see mine until the end of October. WTF!?!? Not happy. Fisker isn't going to have the pre-orderes fulfilled until next year at this rate.

-Brian[hr]
Another annoying tidbit I just heard from the dealer: originally their demos were supposed to be coming in next month. Apparently their 1st demo will be in late August and the 2nd demo will be in late September. I'm told that Fisker is organizing a summer roadshow so that customers can test drive *something*. I've got to say, this has gotten so absurd that Fisker is now a total joke as far as I'm concerned.

Very annoyed...

-Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Given that they raised substantial funding over the past year, Fisker certainly has the resources to hire a full-time person to service those of us who have placed orders. The last time I received any direct email from Fisker was on March 8th, and that was a generic poll on what I'd like to see in an iPhone app. No follow up, no indication of whether or not an app would be developed, no 'thank you' ... nothing.

I have never rec'd any direct-from-Fisker info on my order, my production date, or any projected delivery date. I suppose you can argue that my dealer should serve as an intermediary, but since I put down money long before a dealer network existed (in 2008), you'd think the company would be a bit more attentive. "Aaaaaaarrrrgghhhh!!!" is just about the right sentiment.
 

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If communication outside the organization is a clue to what's going on inside, then it's easy to see why there could be production delays. This is especially true with a car built with nearly all out-sourced parts. If one part is ordered incorrectly,delayed, or there is a shortage everything grinds to a stop. They have reached the nuts and bolts stage now and communication and organization are critical. It's past the point of sitting around the conference room gazing at pictures of trees and sand dunes.
 

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brian said:
Aaaaaaarrrrgghhhh!!! I just heard from my dealer and was told that my production date is September 19th! Holy crap! That now means I won't see mine until the end of October.
Strange, you are #659 and your production date is September 19, while Solfauthor has a later number, #737, but his production starts sooner, on August 31. I guess he got the spot of someone who dropped out at the same dealership.

I think BillyO is right to point out that the production process is very sensitive, with very little being produced in-house. If one of the suppliers, even the smallest one, has a delay then the whole production process stops. I guess we are now learning the hard way that a brand new car in combination with a brand new company requires a lot of patience.

Would be nice if, like Solfauthor suggests, something could be done for those who have been loyal for such a long time (for example no extra cost for the exterior or interior colour scheme). The 2000 people that have made a deposit such a long time ago are one of the main reasons Fisker was able to raise so much money from investors in the first place. Our enthusiastic interest for the Karma, before we have even driven it, must have been a major support for Fisker's business case and convinced investors that this is a viable car/company.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Dutch said:
The 2000 people that have made a deposit such a long time ago are one of the main reasons Fisker was able to raise so much money from investors in the first place. Our enthusiastic interest for the Karma, before we have even driven it, must have been a major support for Fisker's business case and convinced investors that this is a viable car/company.
Excellent point, Dutch.

I wonder whether any Fisker employees read the comments at this site and/or whether they care. If so, they've decided to ignore them. It would be nice to approach them with some of these comments/ideas, but I suspect an email from an individual would hold little sway.

Anyone have any ideas on how the members of FiskerBuzz can collectly voice (1) our concern, and (2) our request for some "compensation" given our indirect assistance in Fisker's successful rounds of financing?
 

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Best way to get someone's attention is to walk away from what they've got to offer. If collectively we all voiced our displeasure via cancellation of our orders, I think that would draw some attention. I think it's a great idea to have them compensate those who've waited longest with comping something. To charge us for exterior color upgrades, interior upgrades, and then to charge us who knows what for the home charging station which by the way will probably cost another $500 to install in your home, is just absurd at this point. Add to this the $85k price that's now $10k more, and it all adds up to a recipe for a disaster. Wonder if Henry Ford pissed off his first customers!

While I realize that no-one is collectively going to give up their slot after this much time, there should be some way to get the company's attention. On my post earlier in the week I left the phone number for the Consumer Affairs group. Perhaps a few irate phone calls there to express our concern would get to the right person. By the way, what they guy told me on the phone which I left on the post has come completely true based on the posts today related to test drives and cars ordered in April and May. Roughly 50% of those who have a deposit supposedly have placed an order. The others, like me, who by the way was number 354, are waiting to test drive the real thing, so I keep saving my money hoping this time next year I'll actually have to plop down a $100k. Hell, perhaps I'll win the lottery by then and I won't care how long it takes or what it costs. Then again, if the world ends tomorrow as that nut in California is predicting, at least we're all out only our deposits!

Also, the reason a later number is ahead of an earlier one is that they placed their order on the first production wave earlier than your dealer did. They didn't wait to get them all in and then arrange by deposit number. They took it first come first served at that time. Another nice piece of customer focus isn't it!

AAAAARRRGGGGHHH Is being Kind.
:mad:
 

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Hokiebird said:
Also, the reason a later number is ahead of an earlier one is that they placed their order on the first production wave earlier than your dealer did. They didn't wait to get them all in and then arrange by deposit number. They took it first come first served at that time. Another nice piece of customer focus isn't it!
Hmm... interesting theory. According to a lady from Fisker who called me back in January, Fisker stopped tracking pre-orders well over a year prior to that. She said that any orders in 2010 or 2011 were only on-file with the dealers and Fisker had no knowledge of placement in any queues. She said it was up to the dealers to handle the order placements on those.

So, perhaps that means that any of the 2009 Fisker-direct orders that they got are getting priority, and then they take the dealer orders as first-come-first-served? I suppose that would make sense and be the most fair way of handling it. That may mean I'm not going to be the first in Austin to receive the car even tho I got my order in 1st and I have the lowest order #. The guy who was #2 to get his order in had been on the list for 2 years, so in theory his car will get priority.

-Brian
 

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Giving up my spot as part of a collective action is not an option. I still am really fond of this car/concept (and just a lot less about the communications department at Fisker). Also, I don't think it would make much of an impression if some people dropped out. It just gives dealers a chance to move people up the list. And I think the Karma will sell very well after it finally releases.

I still want Fisker to become a success, if only to prove that it is possible to start a (green) car company from scratch. So I hope that in half a year time most of us will be driving their Karma, marvel at it, and forget what happened.

Unfortunately the time schedule has proven to be be way too optimistic, again and again. Delivery at the end of 2009 was never realistic to begin with, and I think neither was mid-2010. February-March 2011 was probably the first one that could have held up. But there was still a lot of testing to be done, so any problem that occured would have put that date in jeopardy. And it did. The new muffler must have put back the start of production by at least 1-2 extra months, and that is only one technical problem we know of. Crash testing, for which I heard 18 cars were used, luckily seems to have gone very well, with no major faults. You don't want to have to do any major restructuring. Actually, what I've heard, is that the Karma is the second most rigid car in the world (36.000 Nm/degree), with only the Rolls Royce Phantom being more rigid.

Maybe they could have launched the car earlier, with small faults like a noisy muffler. Just like Tesla did with the Roadster. The first Roadsters had to be retrofitted with a new gearbox, a fault that was already known when they were delivered. Fisker could have done that, but I am glad they didn't. The car can only make one good first impression. Just a shame the communications department completely failed on that point.
 

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Good point. I agree, it's best that they took the time needed to ensure that the car is as good as it could be. The only real problem here is that Fisker can't communicate properly.

-Brian
 
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