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People outside the US may not buy this car as the g/km is much higher than the Karma. I believe the Karma was around 51g/km and with the update now does 47g/km- this essentially puts it in the same class as pure EV's in many countries (0-50g/km) classification.

On another note pretty cool that the PIP (Plug in Panamera) does 3 phase power. I would rather get the diesel.
 

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As I said in a previous tread, waiting for Brian's review!
Well... last year when my Karma was in the shop for 2 weeks, they gave my a Panamera loaner. It was the best loaner car I've ever had. Aside from the grossly underpowered V6, the rest of the car was fantastic. The handling was a 10 out of 10 for a car that size, and it was comfortable, and just "felt right". The V6 was the only bad thing about it - unbelievably underpowered for that car, and a huge amount of torque lag. You had to punch it and wait... and wait... and wait... before you got any power at all out of that.

So, that being said, I wonder if the plugin version of it also has the same horrible lag. My dealer tells me that they've pulled the V8 out of some of the Panamera models for next year and replaced it with a turbocharged V6. I'm sure that'll still have just as much lag, but at least it may have more power once it gets there. I don't think that's what's in the hybrid tho.

Anyway, the one I drove last year was a great car despite the horrible lack of power. Wouldn't ever buy the V6 version, however.

-Brian
 

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The instant torque of the 95 BHP electric motor may actually reduce the torque lag.
 

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Hybrid Panemara

I traded my Karma in for a Hybrid Panamera. Supercharged V6 with electric assist. In sport mode amazingly peppy with > 360 HP. Can't wait for the plug in.

Buck
 

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Brian, what are your thoughts on the Model S?
 

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Brian, what are your thoughts on the Model S?
http://www.fiskerbuzz.com/forums/14...yone-hearing-what-im-hearing-6.html#post35241

I went over to Tesla yesterday to investigate my options, but decided the Model S wasn't worth trading in for, so if (when) Fisker goes under I'll probably just hang onto the car and 1) hope nothing ever breaks again, and 2) that the value somehow goes up since it'll be a rare car, but that may take 20+ years. Not sure if it's safe to store a Lithium battery that long...

-Brian
My main issue with the Model S was the interior. I recall a review (might have been Motortrend who said the leather in the Tesla Roadster "looked like it was stitched by the KGB." I kinda got the same vibe in the Model S. Plus, I hate the huge touch screen and digital dash. Give me buttons and knobs. I think if I got the Model S it would just be "a car". I wouldn't have the same kind of pride as I have driving the Karma which is such a unique an beautiful thing (albeit not so reliable or user friendly sometimes). Honestly, I think I'd rather have a Chevy Volt than the Tesla - a lot less money, nicer interior, and no range anxiety. I might go for one of those if I absolutely have to.

-Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
@smooth - but the performance and handling plus the overall utility might away him. I want Brian to buy one and do an in depth review!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
This article/review is pretty interesting with some fun facts:

- In E-Charge mode, for every 1.5 miles of driving, you refill the battery by adding 1 mile of range

- Car weighs under 5,000 lbs

- Acceleration 0-60mph is 4.9s

- In gas mode, expected to get 30mpg+

- "Real world" electric driving range of 33 miles


http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motora...hybrid-charged-ready-motoramic-175147307.html

2014 Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid, charged and ready: Motoramic Drives
By Lawrence Ulrich – Thu, Jul 11, 2013 1:51 PM EDT
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For decades, whipping someone in a Porsche was all about speed.

But on this day, after 33 miles through the Bavarian Alps in the Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid, I’m claiming a strange new victory: Crushing, in-your-face fuel economy.

Those 33 miles, you see, were accomplished entirely on electricity, beating my more lead-footed journalist colleagues. Not once did the Porsche’s supercharged V-6 fire up over those 33 mountain miles — though when it did, this Panamera still shot from 0-60 mph in 5.2 seconds, amassing a combined 416 hp from its gasoline engine and robust 95-horse electric motor.

The first plug-in hybrid in Porsche history is everything the flawed (and now defunct) Fisker Karma was supposed to be: Genuinely luxurious, roomy, quiet and fast. The Porsche is also more satisfying than any plug-in hybrid before it, as it should be for a car that starts at $99,975, nearly triple the post-rebate price of a Chevy Volt.

Unlike any previous plug-in hybrid, including the Fisker, Volt or Toyota Prius, the Porsche can quickly and fully recharge its lithium-ion battery while driving on gasoline – not simply recycle scraps of energy from braking. It's a breakthrough the industry has been waiting for.

The Porsche is tailor made for a coming world in which cities may bar gasoline cars from entering city gates – or charge hefty fees to do so, as London is already doing with a roughly $15 to $17 congestion charge. The Porsche allows an owner to start the day clocking 22 miles or more on electricity, and then to restore that battery power while driving. So when the Porsche hybrid pulls into London, even after hundreds of miles of driving, it can have a topped-off battery ready to go, making it essentially an electric car for urban use.



Compared with last year’s conventional Panamera Hybrid, the plug-in model’s battery is five times as powerful – with 9.4 kilowatt hours of lithium-ion juice – but fits into the same amount of space. The entire hybrid system, including that 95-hp electric motor that doubles the previous output, weighs just 120 pounds more than before.

Despite weighing nearly 5,000 pounds — about 400 more than the 4S model — the E-Hybrid’s 4.9-second scamper to 60 mph trails the 4S by just 0.3 seconds.

Drivers can operate the Porsche in full-electric mode at the touch of a button, at speeds up to 83 mph. Want more power? Push the gas pedal past a certain point, and a piston in the throttle assembly fires the engine for impressive acceleration. Or drive in hybrid mode, and the Porsche’s parallel hybrid system mixes and matches gas and electric power as the situation demands – picture a Toyota Prius, only one that tops out at 167 mph.

Press the E-Charge button – that call is always up to you -- and the supercharged V-6 both propels the car and juices up the battery: For every 1.5 miles I drove, the Porsche returned about 1 mile of driving range to the battery; in other words, you can fully recharge the battery over 35 or 40 miles of driving. You do burn a bit more fuel to recharge in motion, so it’s more efficient and cost-effective to plug in whenever possible. But even as some power is diverted to refill the battery, the Porsche’s supercharged V-6 has power aplenty for passing, merging, or just plain fun.


Officially, Porsche says the Hybrid can cover 22 miles on battery power alone. But my admittedly gentle driving produced 33 miles, 50 percent better than the estimate, proving that 22 miles will be a breeze in real-world operation.

The S E-Hybrid includes a free 240-volt home charger that recharges the battery in less than 2.5 hours, and recharging on a standard household plug takes about five hours. A smartphone app lets users remotely pre-heat or cool the Porsche using wall current instead of wasting battery juice, or remotely schedule and monitor charging.

The EPA hasn’t assigned the Porsche an official economy rating, under its newfangled mpg-e system, or the electric equivalent to a gallon of gasoline. But last year’s conventional hybrid was rated at 22/30 mpg in city and highway driving, and 25 mpg combined. Porsche estimates that the new model burns up to 50 percent less fuel, and we figure a driver can easily keep the S E-Hybrid above 30 mpg in real-world use. And remember, every electric mile traveled, when that juice comes from plug-in current, will cost roughly one-third the price of premium unleaded.



At the Schloss Elmau – the same Alpine castle where Porsche hosted the first Panamera drives four years ago – Porsche also showed the full battalion of 2014 Panamera models. Modestly reworked for 2014, this four-seat GT had skeptics howling at its debut, but despite its Quasimodo profile, the Panamera’s blend of performance and practicality has made it another worldwide hit much like the Cayenne SUV.

The big change for all 2014 Panameras: Porsche’s new, 3.0-liter bi-turbo V-6 produces an estimable 420 hp. That V-6 may not growl as seductively as the 4.8-liter V-8 it replaces. But the turbo-boosted V-6 delivers 20 more horses and a broader torque curve than the V-8, and drinks far less fuel.

Porsche designers strived to gussy up the 2014 Panamera, but all the styling changes in the world won’t make the Panamera a beautiful car; it still looks best in black and other dark colors that play up its technical, all-business demeanor. It may look like a mutt, but the Panamera slaps the pretty purebreds – the Audi A7, Mercedes CLS or BMW 6-Series Gran Coupe – silly when it comes to handling and driving fun. And that form was always about pure function, allowing a back seat that comfortably fits even six-foot, four-inch adults.

The “budget” choice remains the standard Panamera, starting at $79,075 with its 310-hp V-6, or $83,775 for the all-wheel-drive Panamera S. Upped to 520 hp, the $142,275 Panamera Turbo remains the Autobahn ruler, while the 550-hp Turbo S model takes a hiatus. But it’s expected back for 2015, with a boost to perhaps 570 horses.

Nearly as long as a Mercedes S-Class, the Executive model seems an odd duck in the American lineup; especially priced from $126,575 for the 4S Executive, and $162,075 for the Turbo Executive. It’s hard to see many American Porsche fans – who sit in the driver’s seat, not the back – paying an eye-popping $20,000 to $28,000 extra for a stretched version.

Last but certainly not least, the Panamera GTS gets a 10-horsepower bump to 430 hp from its naturally aspirated 4.8-liter V-8. But while it’s not as brutally fast as the Turbo – the GTS runs a “mere” 4.2 seconds to 60 mph, with a 179-mph top speed – the GTS remains the connoisseur’s choice, with a firmer suspension than even the Turbo, a lowered body, and a “sound symposer” that pipes glorious exhaust music into the cabin.

All models save the S E-Hybrid feature Porsche’s brilliant, seven-speed PDK automatic transmission, one of the smoothest, fastest dual-clutch gearboxes on the planet. (The Hybrid gets an eight-speed, paddle-shifted Tiptronic automatic) The PDK also fully decouples the engine from the transmission when you let off the gas. That clever coasting mode lets the engine idle or even shut off to save fuel.

But the Panamera S E-Hybrid stands as this year's engineering feat. Think about it: A four-passenger, 416 hp Porsche that can cover a reasonable daily commute without drinking a drop of gasoline. Let the naysayers sneer, but you’re looking at the future.
 

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Despite weighing nearly 5,000 pounds — about 400 more than the 4S model — the E-Hybrid’s 4.9-second scamper to 60 mph trails the 4S by just 0.3 seconds.
Unless Porsche has found a way to bypass the laws of physics, there is no way you can get this kind of performance out of a 95 HP electric motor. So the gas engine must be working to get this kind of performance. Also, like the Prius, et al. if you ask for more performance than the 95 HP electric motor can supply, the gas engine kicks in to help, completely defeating the purpose.

It's nice that you can charge the battery on the fly, but that is going to cost a lot of gas and I doubt you can get anywhere near 25 MPG if you are running at highway speeds and charging the battery at the same time.

This guy sounds like a total shill for Porsche. This level of enthusiasm for an ugly car that, in theory, can get as high as 30 MPG seems over the top.
 

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I own a Panamera 4s 2010 V8. I love Porsche and had owned my share. A few interesting observations. The Panamera cant touch the Karma in terms of road feel or long trip comfort.
A few myths. There is no 99,000 hybrid Porsche. Add a few things like leather and a decent sound system and watch what happens.
One thing I have not been able to explain. I drove the Panamera last month from CT to SB Florida. Car averaged 31 MPG over 1492 Miles. At 55 it will easily do mid 30's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I own a Panamera 4s 2010 V8. I love Porsche and had owned my share. A few interesting observations. The Panamera cant touch the Karma in terms of road feel or long trip comfort.
A few myths. There is no 99,000 hybrid Porsche. Add a few things like leather and a decent sound system and watch what happens.
One thing I have not been able to explain. I drove the Panamera last month from CT to SB Florida. Car averaged 31 MPG over 1492 Miles. At 55 it will easily do mid 30's.
Thanks for your observations - what other comparisons can you share about your experience driving the Karma vs the Panamera?
 
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