[Harleyguy]

Gentleman I just spent the last hour and a half on the phone with one of the head mangers of Fisker he was involved in Engineering and another department.Plans are in the works to try and move forward to start a company that will assist the owners with all aspects of the Karma from parts supply and service even the continue development of software . He feels and so do I their has to be a way to continue this car even if its done by the private sector . I've dealt with this gentleman since the day we opened the doors at our dealership so I know he has history with Fisker and also other major brand cars . I'm sure his going to look for backers in this company and make it succeed in areas that Fisker failed in . I doubt everyone just wants to just throw in the towel and send the Karma to the scrap yard . I think with the right backers and business plan this just may work .

I guess if anyone can make the Karma move forward not a pun.it would have to be someone that worked very close with the development of the car I know this isn't what everyone wanted to hear but at least their is still some people who really care about the future of the Karma . It can become the people's car company .

I will post more details as I know them . Also theirs about 1800 cars on the road world wide .

 

[ejo3rd]

Thanks for the great news Harleyguy! It would be very sad to let such a great car fade away. Thanks for your efforts to move things forward and keep the owners informed. We all appreciate it.

 

[Fabulist]

I am sure the owner community would be interested in helping these guys out to the extent they can. Hate to be the sober lawyer here, but I just urge caution because the trademarks and other intellectual property still belongs to Fisker Automotive and depending on what happens in the near term, all of that may end up in the hands of another company and it is impossible to predict at the moment who is going to end up owning those rights or what is going to happen to them. It would be shame for these guys to get mired in lawsuits over the ownership of software, manuals, etc. right out of the gate. I am not giving legal advice here, but common sense dictates that they should be clear about who owns that information before they start building a business around it.

 

[rex]

Great to hear!

Any lawyers on FB that want to offer pro-bono support for a new start-up It sounds like a concept I'd like to see succeed.

When I was part of a start up that was a joint venture between Intel & SAP called Pandesic, many of the clients wrote in a clause, if the business were to under, they'd have an non-exclusive perpetual license to the underlying software for the purpose of maintaining their systems, and improving upon it.

I wonder what rights we have as owners that stem out of the warranty provisions should Fisker file bankruptcy. I wonder if there is anything we should be prepared to do upon the filing of bankruptcy to get the right to all the underlying IP for the sole purpose of maintaining the cars. I don't want to hurt Fisker in negotiating an investor, but if they file for bankruptcy, I don't see how it can hurt to have a provision that automatically provides a royalty free license to all documentation necessary for the maintenance of the vehicles (including the manufacturing of replacement parts). And, as a good faith gesture, having FA provide a mirror of their servers with this material on it, or some other electronic copy of the materials to an independent 3rd party to hold in escrow.

Or, to be more bold, taking some action to ensure that the funds to support warranty liabilities are put in escrow... or something.

I'm a business guy, not a lawyer... and with the lack of a statement from FA to owners, and the fact that FA apparently laid people off without any notice, or severance, I have to assume that "taking care of customers for the long run" isn't top of mind for the remaining executives. I do believe they are working on investment, which is a good place to focus.

That said, we really should figure out how we get an agreement from FA to provide the material support necessary for existing owners to maintain their vehicles. Does anyone have expertise here to offer on how owners and FA can agree to make materials available?

 

[Fabulist]

It is very difficult to predict what is going to happen. It all depends on who ends up getting which assets in BK (if that's what happens) and what they plan to do with it. If the DOE forecloses on the loan and ends up owning everything, it may be possible to do a deal with them to get the IP for cheap and start a company. If an investor ends up buying everything, then the interested parties need to deal with the investor for access and/or license to the IP. If Fisker is reorganized into a new company, it will probably be reluctant to license independent developers to compete with it.

We just don't know enough right now to see what needs to be done.

 

[Harleyguy]

The forming company is fully aware of they have to overcome .The main person behind this venture has been in this same place with other companies .

 

[EVer1]

That is good news Harleyguy, that they have experience with this sort of situation. I had the same reservations as Fabulist. As resources will be scarce, it will be essential not to get bogged down in legal issues right off the line.

Thanks for keeping us in the loop, and particularly with any specifics of what we can do to help.

 

[brian]

Fisker hasn't sold enough cars for any "fixit company" to ever be profitable or even really make sense. I've watched enough Shark Tank to know that no sane investor would ever support such an endeavor. My guess is that there will be some savvy parts collectors on EBay selling off bits and pieces as they become available.

-Brian

 

[Michael]

I guess FA dont have many spare parts either to sell.

Here in sweden a company just made a huge bid to the goverment on SAAB parts, but there are a whole lot of SAABs then fiskers

 

[Nin ja]

i sure no one makes parts for the murias, dino ferrari, fiat dino ? then why do they sell for hundread of thousands of dollars? just curious, not trying to be sarcarstic or anything.

 

[Fabulist]

i sure no one makes parts for the murias, dino ferrari, fiat dino ? then why do they sell for hundread of thousands of dollars? just curious, not trying to be sarcarstic or anything.

I think the parts used in those cars are much easier to repair and refurbish than the high-tech parts in modern cars like the Karma. There are also speciality companies that can fabricate mechanical parts on demand, but that's pretty hard to do with an inverter or a command module. Finally, there are collectors who hoard parts from those old cars or buy scrapped and damaged car as organ donors. The Karma has not been around long enough for any of this. The loss of the 300+ cars in New Jersey is particularly tragic because of this. If those cars were still around, there may at least be a short-term source for spare parts, around which a service company could be built.

 

[Nin ja]

I think the parts used in those cars are much easier to repair and refurbish than the high-tech parts in modern cars like the Karma. There are also speciality companies that can fabricate mechanical parts on demand, but that's pretty hard to do with an inverter or a command module. Finally, there are collectors who hoard parts from those old cars or buy scrapped and damaged car as organ donors. The Karma has not been around long enough for any of this. The loss of the 300+ cars in New Jersey is particularly tragic because of this. If those cars were still around, there may at least be a short-term source for spare parts, around which a service company could be built.

can't we get parts from Quatuam , GM, and even B456? I assume all those parts where produced by someone who still has the CAD derawing and parts list to build them? How does VL-Destino source parts for their cars?

 

[ffcars]

i sure no one makes parts for the murias, dino ferrari, fiat dino ? then why do they sell for hundread of thousands of dollars? just curious, not trying to be sarcarstic or anything.

The cars above were very cheap for a long time and therefore many were neglected or scraped. People like T Rutlands bought them for cheap and striped the parts. After 30-40 years the prices went nuts for them so it's worth paying to have parts made or buy rare parts. They rarely get used and if they do they may use them with a problem that won't affect it running. Like a bad clock, speedo, seat track, radios, etc. However, if you blow an engine you are looking at big bucks to repair because of the parts sourcing and difficultly working on the complicated old multi cam engines.

But anything made of steel can be reproduced for a price.

So in 30-40 years technology will allow owners of a fisker to keep it running. The software issues will be like working on an old commodore computer. It can be done, but for how much.

So the prices for a karma in 30-40 years will be strong. Just don't wreck it, break it, or have any issues until then or you may be sol

 

[Fabulist]

can't we get parts from Quatuam , GM, and even B456? I assume all those parts where produced by someone who still has the CAD derawing and parts list to build them? How does VL-Destino source parts for their cars?

That's actually a real possibility and one of the benefits of the "Fabless" approach taken by Fisker. The downside is that these companies are under no obligation to make these parts if they are not selling enough of them to be profitable. Also, the companies that made the traction motors/generator are not exactly household names and, as far as I know, don't sell to retail customers. But as long as a Dollar, Euro, Yuan, Dinar, or Rial is to be made, the OEM companies can probably be persuaded to make and sell the various components. This is where an independent service company can come in and be the interface for the owners to companies that make the various components.

 

[Harleyguy]

This is one reason a private company is in the works I can say this private company is moving fast and on track with all ready interest coming from the overseas market . They are doing things the right way and the legal way . What's that old saying It's not what you know it's who you know. Everyone on here knows somebody that's owns a Karma and are all well contacted in all type of industries . If Fisker does fall apart at least some other source of information is in the works .

 

[Lormax]

I'd love to hear from this private company. With my wrenching and know-how, I believe I have something to offer. Have them contact me, you have my info. Thanks Harley!

 

[Nin ja]

This is one reason a private company is in the works I can say this private company is moving fast and on track with all ready interest coming from the overseas market . They are doing things the right way and the legal way . What's that old saying It's not what you know it's who you know. Everyone on here knows somebody that's owns a Karma and are all well contacted in all type of industries . If Fisker does fall apart at least some other source of information is in the works .

I too can't imagine the car industry Titans and karma buyer can't marshal the resources to keep what is the best looking car ever penned. True it's not for the faith of heart, but people of means who respect art will certainly respect the accomplishment of the karma for its artistic value. Lets face it, as car enthusiast, I have penned their lines on napkins since childhood and always wondered why concept cars were never produced untouched from the concept - Henrik did it, we should respect that! Fisker Karma - "art in motion"

 

[smoothoperator]

Can anyone who worked at Fisker that dealt with A123 now (B456) PM me? Trying to work on getting some info for owners to try to figure out how we can buy batteries/get our batteries refurbished if it hits the fan. The other option would be for Karma owners to just rip out the EV stuff and put in a gas/diesel motor ala VL. I emailed them but no response. I think that probably is what will happen to many of these cars if they give up their battery ghost.

 

[Ira]

Software engineers know that once code is fairly stable, it doesn't break. It's the hardware you have to worry about.