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Tesla just experienced their 3rd Model S fire:
http://www.valuewalk.com/2013/11/tesla-model-s-fire-third/
http://www.valuewalk.com/2013/11/tesla-model-s-fire-third/
# of Model S fires = # of karma fires
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There is no obvious accident in this case, maybe another case of FOD-induced fire?
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I really want them to succeed. It's a great American story. But...
A serving of humble pie would do this company wonders before they get too high on their own hype and PR. "...the harder they fall"
A serving of humble pie would do this company wonders before they get too high on their own hype and PR. "...the harder they fall"
Agree, and the more issues arise during early stage of the production, the less costly for the company to fix later on.
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This is a lot worse actually, at least to people who know the difference. None of FA's fires involved the HV Battery. Even when the cars caught fire due to flooding at the port in New Jersey, none of the HV Batteries were compromised. The Tesla fires so far have ALL been HV Battery fires. Kudos to Tesla for designing a car that can keep the occupants safe when the HV Battery catches fire, but that's like saying a leaky boat is fine as long as it has enough life preservers on board. The real point is why the HV battery is catching fire and how to prevent that.
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here is a possable solution - i guess they will need to proof their battery floor with Kevlar, similar to what was done with commercial aircraft.
http://www.ehow.com/info_8029976_common-industrial-uses-kevlar.html
http://www.ehow.com/info_8029976_common-industrial-uses-kevlar.html
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Turns out the latest fire is also caused by FOD, specifically, a tow hitch, according to the AP story.
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The fact that the fire was apparently caused by debris in the road, and that the car remained under control and that the driver escaped unharmed should all provide some comfort to Tesla. But the fact that there was an HV Battery fire at all is very alarming. All three drivers have stayed calm and managed to get out of their cars without any injury after the fires. But you can't really count on that happening every time there is a fire, and someone may get hurt after they panic and drive the car off the road or into oncoming traffic, etc. I sincerely hope that never happens because the reputation and future of all EVs are at stake here, not just Tesla, but they really need to find a way to prevent the fires, or to put them out immediately with an active suppression system if they do occur, before someone gets badly hurt, IMHO.
The fact that the fire was apparently caused by debris in the road, and that the car remained under control and that the driver escaped unharmed should all provide some comfort to Tesla. But the fact that there was an HV Battery fire at all is very alarming. All three drivers have stayed calm and managed to get out of their cars without any injury after the fires. But you can't really count on that happening every time there is a fire, and someone may get hurt after they panic and drive the car off the road or into oncoming traffic, etc. I sincerely hope that never happens because the reputation and future of all EVs are at stake here, not just Tesla, but they really need to find a way to prevent the fires, or to put them out immediately with an active suppression system if they do occur, before someone gets badly hurt, IMHO.
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They are currently using a 1/4'' thick steel barrier below the batteries and a 1/2'' steel barrier between the battery and the passenger compartment. I don't think adding Kevlar is going to significantly increase the protection.
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well it worked for the airplane industry as this material can absorb a lot of energy, steel on the other end can only bounce these objects that the car meets and make a chain reaction that leads to a crack and eventually as we seen 3 times - fire!
well it's just an idea..
well it's just an idea..
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Here's what I think we've learned so far from the Model S fires:
1) The battery is susceptible to catching fire after being penetrated by debris or in an accident.
2) The battery venting and isolation does an excellent job of protecting occupants from a battery fire.
I would expect Tesla to respond to this with an engineering solution that protects the battery. And I'd expect it to be retrofitted to all cars even without an NHTSA mandate. This will most likely be accompanied by a marketing stunt showing the model S driving through a debris field without the battery catching fire.
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Sounds like a great Mythbusters episode.Here's what I think we've learned so far from the Model S fires:
1) The battery is susceptible to catching fire after being penetrated by debris or in an accident.
2) The battery venting and isolation does an excellent job of protecting occupants from a battery fire.
I would expect Tesla to respond to this with an engineering solution that protects the battery. And I'd expect it to be retrofitted to all cars even without an NHTSA mandate. This will most likely be accompanied by a marketing stunt showing the model S driving through a debris field without the battery catching fire.
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Did not mean to denigrate the idea, it's a good one. The weight restrictions for an airplane are a lot more strict that the ones for a car, so Tesla would probably opt for a beefier steel plate on the bottom and take the additional weight penalty rather than use Kevlar or other type of soft armor, despite the extra weight. Another option would be to incorporate a chemical fire suppression system, similar to the ones used on jet aircraft, to put the fire immediately after an impact.
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Really great point, Fab.
Maybe, just maybe, their much ballyhooed battery chemistry is more prone to fire than the other options.
What other cars share the Tesla battery chemistry and have their been similar HV battery fire incidents?
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I was wondering about that myself. I haven't found anything on the Web, other than a Leaf that burned up completely with only the battery left intact. That was attributed to the passive (non-chemical) cooling system it uses.
Here are a couple of photos I took a few days ago of a BMW Active E, which is being used as part of a Drive Share Program in San Ramon, CA. I was curious about how the battery might be affected by a crash so I examined the space between the bumper and the battery. Guess what? Under the plastic cover there was nothing. Just open space. Maybe that makes a great crumple zone or offers a controlled burn area away from the occupants in the event of a battery fire. The battery is less than 3 feet from the steering wheel so a fire would definitely get the driver's attention.
In any event, I'd feel better about driving this car if that open space had an active extinguishing system as discussed above.
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none (afaik), because their platform is the only one that puts the battery on the floor of the entire car, rest of the hybrids/EVs like the Leaf/Ford Focus have the pack below the back seats - where fuel tanks/spare tires are in ICE cars.
right now it seems that this design is more risky, but i think the overall that risk is worth the capacity gain.
in the near future, hopefully, we can see that pretty much unfolding these days - the battery energy density goes up and either the capacity will go up or the size of the battery will shrink - that would reduce that risk of having hte battery taking the whole floor of the car.
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Sandy, this link address your battery chemistry question . . . and more:
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/11/3rd-tesla-model-s-fire/
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