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Does anyone know how many Karmas have been built to date?
 

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From this week's end of year letter to owners sent by Henrik:

"I am proud to tell you that we have sold almost 2,000 cars"
 

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Does anyone know how many Karmas have been built to date?
It's hard to know exactly since Fisker has never directly said. But we can make educated guesses. We know that Karma production stopped before last July, possibly last May. Last August, after the second Karma fire, Fisker issued a recall that affected "around 2400" Karmas. It's reasonable to assume that included all Karmas ever produced since we know fewer than 2000 have ever been in customer hands.

It is possible that the 2400 was just the number that had gone out to dealers by the time of the August recall, and Fisker corporate had more cars in storage. So it's unclear if the 338 destroyed last October by Superstorm Sandy were included in that 2400 even though we know they were manufactured before the August recall.

Anyhow, 2400 total is likely the best guess. I do wonder how many unsold, undestroyed Karmas are out there. All of the company's statements suggest that they have more than enough supply to meet demand.
 

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I believe Fisker sold around 35 Karmas in October or November in the US.
 

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Ominous sign that they have not resumed production since summer. Reminds of seeing sign in store window "closed for renovation---see you soon"

Just a euphemism for "bankrupt" but too embarrassed to admit it.
 

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Almost 2,000 is a little disappointing considering they planned for 10k. I wonder at what sales level they can be sustainable. Also for comparison Tesla model S is said to have delivered 2500 cars last year (original target was 5k).

For the good of everyone I hope they can maintain the brand and put the Atlantic on market. Perhaps the best thing that could happen is to be bought by a reputable brand - it will give more confidence to potential buyers (anyone at BMW/Audi/Merc thinking about it?)
 

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Well, if you include the number of Karmas that were 'sold' to Hurricane Sandy, it's way higher than 35!
Unfortunately, it looks like they might not get paid for those. :(

Almost 2,000 is a little disappointing considering they planned for 10k.
They actually planned for 15K. Reports of sales targets being revised down to 10K were quickly corrected by Fisker to say they had no published sales targets.

I wonder at what sales level they can be sustainable. Also for comparison Tesla model S is said to have delivered 2500 cars last year (original target was 5k).
A good question, though I don't think the Model S makes a good comparison. The Model S is currently on a steep production ramp. So they're limited by supply as opposed to limited by demand as the Karma appears to be.

A better comparison might be the Tesla Roadster. Though Tesla seems to be doing a bit of revisiontist history, their original sales goals were "a few thousand" Roadsters a year, but ended up selling about 500 a year while the Roadster was in production. As far as I know there are still a few Roadsters yet to be sold in Europe and the last few in the US took a quite a while to be sold. It appears pretty much everyone that wanted a Roadster and could afford it got one. That may be the case with the Karma (in it's current iteration) as well.

For the good of everyone I hope they can maintain the brand and put the Atlantic on market.
I too hope they can hold on, but it feels like the Atlantic is too far away to be much help. For the more near term I think they should launch a next model year Karma with an updated (Atlantic intended) drivetrain. They should also offer it as a paid upgrade for existing customers. A more reliable (out of the box), higher performance, higher efficiency drivetrain would go a long way to repairing the brand image.
 

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Doug I personally agree with you on the drivetrain performance/efficiency improvements, but I think we're biased as engineers and you as a Tesla/electric enthusiast. The drivetrain is the primary innovation of the Tesla, not its looks or interior. Early adopters are buying the Tesla on drivetrain and interior space presumably. Without a gas price hike the general public still may not care for the Tesla all electric drivetrain.

The Karma can sell on looks to people who are not efficiency fanatics yet haven't even heard of it yet, once the bad quality sentiment from last spring's launch dissipates and is replaced with the emerging consensus of owner satisfaction.

I hope/think we'll see some level of drivetrain improvement if not a total overhaul, along with better engine noise muffling.
 

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Pythagoras I agree with you but highly doubt we will see any major drivetrain improvements. Fisker is locked into the GM Ecotec 4 banger for a while and my sense is they are still early stages with the BMW N20. I personally would welcome a new CC with decent Nav(partner with Google already!), an overclocking/e-nitro option to get the Karma better accel (rumor is the Karma has made it to 60 under 4 secs during engineering runs), abilty to charge on the fly using the range extender ala roadshow cars (or at least lock in electric range even when you have more than 26 miles of range and lastly, some more muffling/sound dampening for the range extender. If they can do that, this car would sell much better.

People love the looks, love the concept of EVER, but have complained that its too slow for its looks, not as efficient in gas mode and when the range extender is at full throttle, too loud.

Tesla in contrast, is not emotionally stirring by its looks - I've seen 6 now in the last two weeks in LA and people easily overlook it as a Jag, Chrysler or Mazda. Only geeks and econuts seem to notice it. I like the elegance of the drivetrain, it's acceleration and the promise of its huge touchscreen controls (although I've heard there are many Karma-esque issues there too).
 

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SoCal, I think that's a double edged sword. I think the performance and range extending functionality took a hit due to sound deadening and emissions. If you bring them back, the car would likely emit more c02 and would probably be louder too (just my guess from following the early tricklings of news on the issue).

Though, people do things like this to their cars all the time, so I bet it would be nice to at least have the option to tune it. I'd be wary of just taking it anywhere though,
 

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I tend to think that if you've branded yourself as a "green car" company, the most important thing is the drivetrain and you should make that your core competency.

To return to the actual topic of this thread, does anyone have a better estimate than 2400 for the total number of Karmas manufactured?
 

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Let's see who posts highest manufacturing serial number, mine is pretty low at #699. Does anybody's serial number go over 2000?
 

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Doug again you're giving away your true bias as an electric- eco-purist. You're still pissed that Fisker did not meet their originally trumpeted mileage numbers. However the Karma still has better gas-only mileage than any vehicle of equivalent weight and luxury (most comparables are at 18 or 19mpg) and that should be enough to satisfy the non-purists.
 

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There's one at Fisker of Orange County that is 2626
 

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Doug again you're giving away your true bias as an electric- eco-purist. You're still pissed that Fisker did not meet their originally trumpeted mileage numbers. However the Karma still has better gas-only mileage than any vehicle of equivalent weight and luxury (most comparables are at 18 or 19mpg) and that should be enough to satisfy the non-purists.
Probably better if you didn't make assumptions about people.

I am not an EV/eco purist. I am a fan of high performance, and I think performance should live up to the looks (or exceed in the case of a sleeper). I go driving (with a gas car) for fun in the mountains on occasion, while I try to ride a bike for most of my local errands.

I'm a fan of the Volt and of the Karma for the most part. If manufacturers can get costs down, I'd like to see plug-in hybrids replace the majority of gas cars in the mid-term. As technology and infrastructure evolves, I do think in the long term all ground transportation should become pure electric.

Regarding the Karma drivetrain, I'm not "pissed". That would be plain silly. There is, however, a lot of room for improvement, and acting on that seems to me to be the best thing Fisker could do in the near future. Saying things "should be enough to satisfy the non-purists" is sticking your head in the sand. The sales numbers (YAY! Almost on topic!) clearly are not good enough.
 

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Yes I suspect drive train improvements would be the best thing Fisker could do for the performance-oriented consumer and press. I don't need more performance in my Karma -- not sure how many owners here would say they do. Those numbers are statistics the traditional auto press uses to drive excitement -- some panned the Karma because it disappointed by traditional metrics but that does not make owning the Karma a disappointing experience as most will attest here! Henrik has said they were shooting for something different that matches the way people actually drive every day not just beat the numbers but it's hard to get instant publicity that way.

I think the reason they're still emphasizing Atlantic over Karma updates is that to attract several hundred million more investment, they need a long-term volume story that can possibly make a return on that additional investment. Doubling the Karma volume from 2500 a year to 5000 a year would be great but still wouldn't provide a motivating return on further millions of investment.
 

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Hmm... I'm guess I'm reaching for something positive Fisker can do now. An updated Karma would give the car mags reason to take a second look and give Fisker a chance to make a better impression and improve their brand image. No matter how reliable the car is now, the early reviews were bad and that narrative has stuck. Coupled with series of unfortunate events for Fisker this past year, I'm hoping they can turn things around in 2013.
 
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