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http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/fisker-s-ambitious-model-plans-detailed/258986

Says the Nina will have the new 2-or-3-speed gearbox and thus just one electric motor (rather than the two in the Karma), saving space. (Perhaps this means 200 hp instead of 400, or 150 kW vs the 300 in the Karma.) Says the first Nina will be available in 2013, with the SUV variant in 2014.

Also mentions the upcoming Frankfurt Karma variant, and claims that there will be an "all new Karma" in 2017, and a first tweak in 2015.
 

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From the article:

"The Karma will also get a face-lift in 2015. While the styling won't change dramatically, the car will get the Nina's drivetrain and will be offered in right-hand drive for the first time. The Nina's drivetrain will free up more luggage space."

Sounds like they're dumping the drivetrain from (the inappropriately named) Quantum Technologies.

It will be interesting if Fisker can solve the reliability issues Tesla had with a two-speed gear box. The the high torque and the large RPM gap between shifts proved to be a difficult engineering problem that three top vendors failed at. More gears would probably help some.
 

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According to this article full-scale production of the Nina has been delayed until mid-2013:

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20111020/BUSINESS11/110200309/Fisker-pushes-Nina-production-mid-13?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CHome

Earlier it had been delayed from second half-2012 to end-2012.
 

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Dutch said:
According to this article full-scale production of the Nina has been delayed until mid-2013:

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20111020/BUSINESS11/110200309/Fisker-pushes-Nina-production-mid-13?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CHome

Earlier it had been delayed from second half-2012 to end-2012.
I think they could have been able to pull it off if they used the Karma drive train for the Nina but developing a new gearbox and integrating the BMW engine (which itself may still be in development) seemed pretty ambitious. Getting the Delaware factory up to speed may also need more time.

Also, with Karma production running behind, it makes sense to keep Nina off the market a little longer so it does not cut into Karma's market.

-- Fab.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Fabulist said:
I think they could have been able to pull it off if they used the Karma drive train for the Nina ...
Maybe.

I'd place a modest bet right now that they won't make "mid-2013" either. I figure it takes over two years from "fully-functional prototypes" to "production vehicles at dealers". So, once there are prototype Ninas, add about 2 to 2.5 years and bet on that date. (Remember, you not only need to build some, but also get them past government certification programs, for instance.) If they were to use the Karma drive train unchanged, that would still make "late 2013" quite tough. To integrate the BMW engine, a single motor, and an all-new transmission that can handle the force involved, all in under two years?
 

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ct-fiskerbuzz said:
If they were to use the Karma drive train unchanged, that would still make "late 2013" quite tough. To integrate the BMW engine, a single motor, and an all-new transmission that can handle the force involved, all in under two years?
That's a fair point but bear in mind that they have already been working on Nina for a while. The very first prototype I saw was in April of this year so by that point they should have been at it at least a year, maybe longer. Nevertheless, these things always turn out more difficult than you expect, so no bet. :dodgy:

-- Fab.
 

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doug said:
From the article:

"The Karma will also get a face-lift in 2015. While the styling won't change dramatically, the car will get the Nina's drivetrain and will be offered in right-hand drive for the first time. The Nina's drivetrain will free up more luggage space."

Sounds like they're dumping the drivetrain from (the inappropriately named) Quantum Technologies.
I have heard this before. What makes you think that Quantum isn't making the new drivetrain also? From what I have read the two companies work closely since the Fisker Automotive's start.
 

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k-sweise said:
I have heard this before. What makes you think that Quantum isn't making the new drivetrain also? From what I have read the two companies work closely since the Fisker Automotive's start.
Quantum did not make most of the components of the existing drivetrain either, they are basically a system integrator. Fisker may be switching to an in-house designed drivetrain, but just switching out the ICE-Generator to BMW does not necessarily mean that Q-Tech will not stay on as the system integrator.

-- Fab.
 

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Apparently Fisker is claiming that the initial report of the delay is false. Fisker today is claiming that the Nina is still on track for end of 2012. Shall we start a pool?

-Brian
 

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brian said:
Apparently Fisker is claiming that the initial report of the delay is false. Fisker today is claiming that the Nina is still on track for end of 2012. Shall we start a pool?

-Brian
I'm game: I'll bet Fisker is on track and won't announce the delay until the end of 2012.

//Not what you meant???
 

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k-sweise said:
doug said:
From the article:

"The Karma will also get a face-lift in 2015. While the styling won't change dramatically, the car will get the Nina's drivetrain and will be offered in right-hand drive for the first time. The Nina's drivetrain will free up more luggage space."

Sounds like they're dumping the drivetrain from (the inappropriately named) Quantum Technologies.
I have heard this before. What makes you think that Quantum isn't making the new drivetrain also? From what I have read the two companies work closely since the Fisker Automotive's start.
Yeah, the absence of Quantum was perhaps just wishful thinking on my part. I remember hearing about Quantum Technologies before Fisker Automotive started and I'd never really been impressed with them. Big talk, not much to show. E.g., they played up this hydrogen fueled turbocharged Prius that was loud and had worse performance and lower efficiency than a normal Prius. Also as a physics guy who's spent a lot of time studying quantum mechanics, I really don't like them using the name Quantum. Feels like false advertising. I realize this is my personal bias.

Anyhow, it looks like the Nina drivetrain will be superior to the Karma's (or so they hope). It makes sense, they should be getting better and learning from their mistakes.
 

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doug said:
k-sweise said:
doug said:
From the article:

"The Karma will also get a face-lift in 2015. While the styling won't change dramatically, the car will get the Nina's drivetrain and will be offered in right-hand drive for the first time. The Nina's drivetrain will free up more luggage space."

Sounds like they're dumping the drivetrain from (the inappropriately named) Quantum Technologies.
I have heard this before. What makes you think that Quantum isn't making the new drivetrain also? From what I have read the two companies work closely since the Fisker Automotive's start.
Yeah, the absence of Quantum was perhaps just wishful thinking on my part. I remember hearing about Quantum Technologies before Fisker Automotive started and I'd never really been impressed with them. Big talk, not much to show. E.g., they played up this hydrogen fueled turbocharged Prius that was loud and had worse performance and lower efficiency than a normal Prius. Also as a physics guy who's spent a lot of time studying quantum mechanics, I really don't like them using the name Quantum. Feels like false advertising. I realize this is my personal bias.

Anyhow, it looks like the Nina drivetrain will be superior to the Karma's (or so they hope). It makes sense, they should be getting better and learning from their mistakes.
I ask because I try to follow companies that are creating new green technology, and am really excited about the prospects of what they are trying to do. I agree though the mis-use of the word quantum gets me every time it's used, which is pretty often.
 

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doug said:
Also as a physics guy who's spent a lot of time studying quantum mechanics, I really don't like them using the name Quantum. Feels like false advertising. I realize this is my personal bias.
I guess you will not be frequenting this VW repair shop then (click on the logo below for their website):



:D

-- Fab.
 
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