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I am sure that after we have properly tested this upgrade it will also be available for other markets.
The reason they start on the Dutch market is the tax structure here.
The difference between 53 and 47 gr/km is over USD 10.000,- per year Net!
This has to do with a quite expensive company care taxation, which will be reduced to 0 once you are under the magical 50 g/km
I asume 99% of the 150 Karma's delivered in Holland are company cars, so everbody will want this upgrade. This means they will get app 150 * EUR 6,250 = EUR 937,500.- (USD 1,250,000.-) for upgrading all cars in the Netherlands.
They should be able to earn back the development costs of this upgrade quite handsomely. Which is very good news, as I would really like them to survive, as I love my Karma, and driving on Solar Power instead of Oil

PS I am quite curious if we will notice a difference in performance, I am sure this upgrade will cost us some power.
 

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In Germany, there is no such tax program, but we have trees and animals!
In Germany, the delivered range of the Karma is still less than 80% of the announced range.

If Fisker is able to save the environment and raise the range by just doing an software update, to me it seems contemptible, holding this software back.

Also "without compromises" ?




Stefan
German Karma Forum
www.karma-forum.de
 

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In Germany, there is no such tax program, but we have trees and animals!
In Germany, the delivered range of the Karma is still less than 80% of the announced range.

If Fisker is able to save the environment and raise the range by just doing an software update, to me it seems contemptible, holding this software back.

Also "without compromises" ?


Stefan
German Karma Forum
www.karma-forum.de

The upgrade, which is more than just software, costs €6000. Do you know anyone in Germany who will pay for this upgrade to shave a few grams of CO2-emission off? In The Netherlands the investment is lucrative because of the tax rules.
 

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Dutch,

the article says

"Fisker engineers were able to reduce Karma's CO2 emissions to 47 g/km from 53 g/km, an improvement of 11%, by making software upgrades that minimize ancillary electrical losses and increase all-electric range 3.6% to 86 km, from 83 km.
Only Karmas sold in The Netherlands through authorized Fisker dealers ... will feature the upgraded software. ..."

This clearly states "Software", twice.
If there is Hardware involved, OK, one must decide, whether to get the upgrade.

If it is software and 'only' service people are required to update the car, than it might be fair to charge for the extra service ...
anyway, €6000 looks like a big piece of the tax cake.

Otherwise, it could be upgraded during normal service in the shop, if any other upgrade is required.... in that case without charges, please.

According to the Fisker management, they aim to be the most environmental friendly car maker, so why taking the risk to get bad reputation in that area?





Stefan
German Karma Forum
www.karma-forum.de
 

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I have to agree with Stefan here, it is a nice business model for Fisker NL, and I am (my company is) happy to pay EUR 6000 to save me EUR 24.000 over 3 years

I am also sure this upgrade, which is only software as I understand it, will also be available for other countrys after they skimmed Holland.

The trick is that the cars need to be re-registered in the low tax category.
And Fisker is the only one who can do this, so we are forced to go through them.

The second tricky part is that if we do not do it before end of 2013, the tax will not be 0, but around EUR 4000 per year.

So probably after 2013 the upgrade will be available for free... and depending on the trade off in performance I think a 11 percent reduction in CO2 is a good reason to go for it on all Fiskers worldwide.

well whatever, if this helps Fisker survive, I will go for it, and let them take care of everything.
 

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In SUV land, we don't have a CO2 tax (yet), so there is no financial incentive to get this upgrade here, but the extra range is always welcome.
 

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In SUV land, we don't have a CO2 tax (yet), so there is no financial incentive to get this upgrade here, but the extra range is always welcome.
If this modification gets me the green carpool lane sticker here in the SF bay area, I'll take it. The Chevy Volt made a change to get the sticker. The original volts didn't qualify.
 

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If this modification gets me the green carpool lane sticker here in the SF bay area, I'll take it. The Chevy Volt made a change to get the sticker. The original volts didn't qualify.
That would be great, although the Volt had to be physically modified to satisfy the carpool sticker requirements.

If the Karma software modification reduces emissions by causing the ICE to run less often for the same distance, that would not help with the CARB requirements because they basically ignore the EV part of the car and only test the emissions of the engine while it is running. If, on the other hand, the software actually causes the ICE to run more efficiently, then there may be hope for the sticker yet.
 

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From what I've understood it cost them €800,000 (or $) to develop this upgrade and go through the whole process of testing and registration. It was done to be able to sell many more Karma's in The Netherlands, with its specific tax laws. To recoup some of the huge costs the price of new cars (from inventory) with the upgrade is higher and the upgrade for existing customer cars costs €6000 ($8000). They are probably not going to offer this in other countries for a few hundred euros or dollars, even if it is just a software upgrade, if Dutch customers have paid €6000 for it.
 

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I believe, spending $ 800.000 only for this software-upgrade is a waste of money, because you only serve a few customers. I just asked my dealer in Germany, wheter he could get this knew software for me. And: i would like to have the regular and last software running stable, which is not the case.
Fisker is lacking money, investing in this piece of software is not a smart move. Fisker has bigger problems to solve: finding a supplier for the karma's and Atlantic batteries and gettin production started again. Show face with the Karma and the new Atlantic or you get forgotten.
 

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I believe, spending $ 800.000 only for this software-upgrade is a waste of money, because you only serve a few customers. I just asked my dealer in Germany, wheter he could get this knew software for me. And: i would like to have the regular and last software running stable, which is not the case.
Fisker is lacking money, investing in this piece of software is not a smart move. Fisker has bigger problems to solve: finding a supplier for the karma's and Atlantic batteries and gettin production started again. Show face with the Karma and the new Atlantic or you get forgotten.
I disagree. Investing $800K to sell more cars in Fisker's second largest market (Netherlands) is not a waste.

Are you running the 510 software? I got it in October and have had zero problems in 3 months/2000 miles. Quite a few other owners have reported similar success with the latest software.

As for the battery, the bankruptcy sale of A123 to Wanxiang was completed last week. And Wanxiang U.S.'s president has stated they want to be a strategic supplier/investor in Fisker, since the Karma represents their biggest customer for A123 batteries. Now that the new owners have been approved by the US and the bankruptcy court, there shouldn't be a hold up in battery production.
 

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the Netherlands might be the seconds largest market for Fisker. But NL is a small country and I do not see much more chances to increase sales in NL. You have to keep in mind, that most of those cars are beeing sold only on for tax reasons. A Fisker at the regular price would not be sold that much. On the other hand in Germany Fisker is nearly invisible. My dealer conceeded this and the Emil Fray Group, who is the local distributor in Germany, is now making some effort for better marketing the Karma, offering a leasing for the Karma. When I bought
my Karma ( Signature No 16 ) no financing by the dealer or Importer was in sight. You can not sell a car at this price without bringing with you some financial packages for the customers. What I want to point out is, that the market for the Fisker Karma in Germany is much more interesting then NL or other Countries in Europe. Where ever I go with my Karma, people are getting excited and ask me, were the next dealer is. The pricing in Germany is also no hurdle. Fisker does not take the chance in Germany, although he has just to collect the money. With his BMW experience Hendrik Fisker should know the German Market. No ads in the big newspapers, no marketing. That is not good enough to get some contribution to solve the crisis from hundreds of potential German customers. The reason might be, that the dealers show some concern, that Fisker may not make it. You have to got to markets, where the money is and not focus on special occasions, that will be gone very soon, because the market is almost set.
Start up production is the No. 1 goal, that Fisker has to achieve and produce - positive - headlines with the Karma and the new Atlantic.
 

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I don't know how many Karmas have sold the Netherlands, but from the numbers given in this thread, all Fisker has to do is sell the software upgrade to ~135 existing owners for it to have been worth it. (This ignores the actual cost to the dealer to perform the upgrade which I've tacitly assumed here to be minimal.)
 

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140 Fisker Karma's have been sold in the Netherlands. The modification to 47 gr CO2 is definitely a huge tax advantage of around € 10.000 per year! Therefore, I am planning on modifying my Karma before importing it into the Netherlands. Only question I have is, does it cost performance or is it mainly the range increase that accommodates the reduction in CO2?
 

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Jan, does Fisker support imported cars at all, now?
There have been several discussions, stating that Fisker does not want to transfer cars between markets and that they do not service or update these cars at the destination.

And brining it to Germany for the upgrade might not help, because the CO2 SW upgrade is supposed to be available for the Netherlands VINs only.

Any news on that?


Stefan
German Karma Forum
www.karma-forum.de
 

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140 Fisker Karma's have been sold in the Netherlands. The modification to 47 gr CO2 is definitely a huge tax advantage of around € 10.000 per year! Therefore, I am planning on modifying my Karma before importing it into the Netherlands. Only question I have is, does it cost performance or is it mainly the range increase that accommodates the reduction in CO2?
I have had my car updated for the 47gr CO2. I do not notice any difference.
 
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