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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My hope is that this will benefit you all in someway or another when it is published.

The Truth about ?The New Fisker? article by Robert R. Betcher

After about a year of research, I decided to buy a Fisker. It was a well thought out decision, where all was to be made right by the buyout of Fisker by Wanxiang.

However, take this as a warning to those of you considering the purchase of a New or Used Fisker. There is little to no support offered by the New Fisker. This company wants to strategically purchase all that is good about Fisker while not offering any warranty support for issues and problems plaguing the current Fisker owners.

How do I know about ?The New Fisker?? My first experience was when I reached out concerning the numerous .exe errors appearing on my primary computer screen within the vehicle in which they refer to as the CIU. I asked very direct questions about why I was receiving these numerous Windows Operating system errors? Yes, you heard correctly, they did not build on a Linux platform or build a Native proprietary system, but built on Windows.

Even after asking numerous questions surrounding the current architecture of the CIU and future architecture of the CIU, I still did not get a straight answer. This left me gravely concerned that not only are they not going to address these looming defects in their CIU architecture for current Fisker owners, but there was no mention on fixing these issues in the future. I am not sure their lack of response left me concerned or the lack of mentioning one proactive step to resolve these issues gave me reason to worry. So, in a nutshell, there is a good chance that Fisker owners, new and old will be dealing with many computer issues surrounding the operation of their vehicle, ultimately leaving them stranded 100+ miles from the nearest service center.

Don?t believe that a Fisker can be left stranded hundreds of miles from a service center? Well, let me tell you my experience when the rear end of my Fisker Karma completely blew out. I was driving through New York when I heard a horrible screeching coming from the rear end of my vehicle. The metal on metal grinding was almost deafening. Suddenly, my car losses all power on one of the most busy interstates in New York. Thankfully, I was able to cruise to one of the least savory neighborhoods in New York, where I stuck out like a sore thumb. 3 hours later, and luckily not mugged or carjacked, I was able to have a tow truck pick up my vehicle and tow it to the nearest Fisker Service Center 100+ miles away for just under $400.

After the technician at the Service Center inspected my vehicle, he determined that I would need to replace many of the parts on the rear transaxle of my Fisker for upwards of $20K. However, if I want to look into some 3rd party options, I can have the rear end or RDU rebuilt for $8500.00, whereby Fisker will reimburse $2000. So, with tax, parts and labor the total will be closer to $10K to fix the rear end of the vehicle.

This is just one of the possible areas where Fisker owners may have to pay exorbitant costs to keep their low mileage Fisker running. There are still issues reported with batteries, power inverters and many other high dollar components.
Now many of you who are thinking about a new Fisker, and might be saying to yourself, ?it is okay, the New Fisker will warranty my vehicle.? Really? The same way they warrantied the current Fisker owners? What will keep them from declaring insolvency and selling the company to avoid warranty work?

In the end, if there is a consideration to purchase a Fisker, then I would urge potential owners to learn from my experience and look to other options.
 

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For someone who clearly spent alot of time researching Fiskers, you could have spent less than $100/yr to get AAA plus - it costs you nothing for a 150+ mile tow - for ALL of your vehicles.

As far as your complaints of the systems in the Fisker, if you wanted something that you can be sure won't break down or has the finest computer controls buy a generic Mercedes, BMW or other mass produced car. Leave the pleasure of owning a unique product to those of us who are comfortable with the risk reward of the experience.
 

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Just as a FYI the current CIU and DIS are built on RTOS QNX not windows or linux. Both of these were done by suppliers not Fisker themselves; they basically were stuck with what the supplier gave them. Ditto for the battery, inverters, vcm, rdm etc. The blame should ultimately fall on Fisker I agree but they got screwed pretty badly by the suppliers and their hands were/are tied. Hopefully they learn from the mistakes and are given an opportunity to control their own destiny this time around by being able to fix bugs without being a slave to the supplier.
 

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I'm sorry you've had a bad experience. It certainly is not reflective of my experience of 3+ years of Karma ownership or my interactions with the New Fisker. I am extremely pleased and frankly surprised by the level of support they have brought to the existing owner community they inherited. I think it is inaccurate and unfair for you to portray the specific issues with your situation as representative of the company in general, but of course you're free to do what you wish.

Your article is also factually wrong. The CIU is demonstrably not built on a Windows platform and if you would have spent even an hour researching in these very forums you could have discovered that. As for your ominous 'grave concern' that the new Fisker was not going to enhance the CIU there's absolutely no evidence to support your claim and plenty of evidence to the contrary. The new company has already announced a planned "Baseline 540" software release specifically targeted toward improving the CIU experience. I have no idea why you would expect the company to answer questions about its proprietary software and architecture but their refusal to do so is evidence of nothing.

I also do not know what you hope to accomplish with your 'article'. I'm not sure how fear mongering, damaging the reputation of the company or negatively impacting the perception of the brand (which impacts all of us owners) is going to achieve any meaningful purpose. Is your intention really to 'warn prospective buyers' or just to complain and provide fodder to those with an agenda to push?

Please do not presume to speak for me or other Fisker owners. I would hope you have the integrity to state clearly that your entire frame of reference is based upon your experience as a second-hand owner of one vehicle for less than a year and that you have no actual corroborating evidence to support your suspicions.

Brent
 

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@betch23, I'm really sorry that you feel that way. If you really done your research as you stated, then you knew the risks of owning a Fisker. At the same time, there are ways to mitigate those risks such as having a pre-inspection done before you buy or look up to see what has been done to the car. And if you are one of the 200+ owners that are under the CSP, you would be happy that The New Fisker took over; I know I am.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thank you all for your responses.

Out of curiousity, how many of you service Fiskers?

PS I had countless emails to the New Fisker about the CIU and had to get my information from someone who worked directly with Fisker on the GPS about the OS.
 

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Out of curiousity, how many of you service Fiskers?
None of them. And, neither do I. Sorry you made a bad purchase after all your research. I've had my Karma since 2011 and still love mine. It's my daily driver.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
None of them? Are you positive? None responded.

Thank you for your response; and glad that you have had such a great experience.

Seems to be quite a different experience than mine. Would have liked to had your same experience.
 

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I've been on this board since 2011. I think I know who works on Karmas and who does not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thats great, I am happy for how long you have been on.

But I think we should let them speak for themselves. They all were all willing to be very vocal, so let's let them speak for themselves.
 

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I totally get why you're frustrated and angry. You have had a horrible experience.

That said, most of us have had a great experience with our cars and really good dealings with the new Fisker. What you have to accept (crappy as it is) is that the company who made your car is gone. And they left a lot of people stranded in their wake. But, the new one who bought the name and the factory equipment, isn't them. None of that management is the same. You can't be mad at the new family who moved in next door because the last owner stole your garbage cans. The new company didn't really owe us anything. They agreed to administer the CSP program which was a part of the the bankruptcy settlement. And, they have lived up to that (and sometimes exceeded it for no other reason than current owners are their best marketing tool). And, they have spent the last 3-4 months quintupling (?) the number of places in the US that you can get service. It's not perfect, yet, but it's way better than it was.

When did you buy your car? It sounds like you bought yours used (as you referenced $2K of CSP money). If that's true, you got a $110K (or more) car at a very cheap price as the market had quickly adjusted to the idea that support would be tough to find. You took a risk (the same one I did, buying my car in January before The New Fisker started operations). Part of that risk was self-warrantying your own car. It kills me that anybody has had a bad experience. It could have been any of us, and it was bound to be some of us. But, it was a risk I understood when I bought. And, things are WAY better now than they were 4 months ago.

Seems like your beef should be with the original Fisker if anybody. And, the people who really have had it bad are original owners whose cars had failed in 2013-2014. They had a "contract" that the original Fisker didn't live up to. (And, that had a lot to do with an Insurance Company not living up to their contract to replace the cars lost in Sandy).

P.S. I have no affiliation with Fisker (old or new) or any Fisker repair shop. I'm just an owner who thinks that the car is something special, and worth a risk. I would never have been able to be involved had they not been half price. So, I feel lucky. I am very sorry about your situation. Get yours fixed, and I know you'll fall in love with it. That's the best advice I can give you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thank you but I beleive firmly in Corporate responsibility; the good and the bad, even if bankruptcy occurred.

Throughout all of these posts, I have heard blame thrown toward the old Fisker and the old suppliers. The long and short of it all is when the investors bought Fisker they were aware of the issues. When you buy a company you don't just take the good and not honor the bad; business ethics 101.

My belief is that we all should expect the New Fisker to honor the bad and not just capatilize on the good. While some may be okay with being used in this manner, I don't feel comfortable with usery.
 

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I'm an old timer like Sigurd :). Just an owner, not a dealer, mechanic or in any way affiliated with Fisker old or new.
 

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Ok, here goes. While I can attest that no one replying here repairs the cars, as you know @betch23 I am, and I have ALWAYS remained impartial to either side here on the forums. Being on the ground level as the guy always delivering the bad news in these situations I have always taken the same stance. When a potential new buyer calls me I tell them the same, do the research and make sure you can afford this car in the event of these failures. These cars are basically prototypes put on the road at a developmental stage. I thoroughly explain the major failures and their cost, they are factual and at this point the blame on their failure has been accepted as new product growing pains and fairly traded for such a unique beautiful car.
Honestly, it is only because of this forum that a new buyer can explore EVERY good and bad about these cars. The second part of my new buyer discussion is to explore this forum IN DEPTH and then call me back with any questions. Most importantly I advise them to never buy a car without getting me or @Harleyguy a VIN first.
Lastly, as these owners felt abandoned by old Fisker, guys like myself and Adam have done what we can to keep the cars roadworthy with little to no parts supply at times. From our point of view we lost all technical and parts support so we felt the same pain. At one point as technicians we would only get paid on what work we produced, meaning we lost countless hundreds of unpaid hours figuring out how to fix hv batteries and rdms. WhIle I may hold Old Fisker responsible for alot of headaches, I can't see how the new company can be held responsible when they are only trying to pick up the pieces and rebuild. Does the new company know of the rdm problem upfront? Yes, however their responsibility is to fix it for the new Karma, not the old. Let's face it if all the used karmas for sale out there carried a factory backed drive train warranty would they be 50 grand?
My 2 cents and I do repair these cars...
 

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Thank you but I beleive firmly in Corporate responsibility; the good and the bad, even if bankruptcy occurred.

Throughout all of these posts, I have heard blame thrown toward the old Fisker and the old suppliers. The long and short of it all is when the investors bought Fisker they were aware of the issues. When you buy a company you don't just take the good and not honor the bad; business ethics 101.

My belief is that we all should expect the New Fisker to honor the bad and not just capatilize on the good. While some may be okay with being used in this manner, I don't feel comfortable with usery.
I don't know what you do for a living, but I sincerely hope that it does not require understanding math, in particular the concept of risk. Unlike those of us who paid in excess of $110K from a company that offered a warranty, you bought your car after the company was sold through Bankruptcy. I am not sure what type of research you did, but the Bankruptcy records are all public and have been widely discussed here.

Anyone with even a casual acquaintance with the concept of risk would recognize that the huge discount in the asking price of the Karma represents the risk associated with buying a car without a warranty or support from an established company, as set out very explicitly in the Bankruptcy proceedings, So basically, you want the discount but don't want to live up to the risk when things don't pan out. In short, it's not New Fisker, it's you.

If this is too advanced for you, consider this: even after spending $10K - $20K, to fix the RDM, you will still have a much cheaper Karma that those of us who bought them new.

Finally, don't use a word if you don't know what it means. "Usery" is not a real word. "Usary" is a real word but it means charging excessive interest which has nothing to do with your situation. Either way, you look like a complete idiot (which of course you are not) by using that word.

Stop blaming others for your own ignorance and lucre (real word -- look it up). It's not the end of the world. Get it fixed and enjoy it. The New Fisker owes you nothing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
BTW Fabulist, it is "usury" not "usary". I unfortunately type on my phone which results in typos often due to multi tasking.

Also, you may want to look at this portion of your post: "acquaintence with the cioncept", while you are correcting other's posts.

In the end, while I see many of your points and commend each and every one of you who used intelligence, unbiased opinions and forethought; I believe that there should be a better solution on the part of New Fisker. If you disagree, then pay out all your hard earned money to them. It is really your choice.

If it were me, and I purchased the company, I would issue a recall on specific defective items and make it right. But maybe I think much differently than the rest and try to make ethical decisions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I can see part of your point Fisker Philly, but buying a company entails the good and the bad. As I mentioned prior, I believe there needs to be some form of copability on the New company. If they are taking the benefit of the old designs, the lessons learned from the prototyping and the supply chain artifacts, then in fairness there should be some reaponsibility taken.

Personally, offering $2k to $5k reimbursement(which why there is a difference between the two, escapes me) does not come remotely close to the $10k-$20k in defective drive train parts.

In my humble opinion, why wouldn't the new company go back to the parts manufacturer and pursue a recall, especially if they are still using their parts?

Again, I would handle this much differently because whether I did or did not buy the company out of Bankruptcy, I believe customers come first and there would be no Fisker without them. I would have long term strategy in place to deal with such issues because it is the ethical decision; a decision that would not entail reimbursing pennies on the dollars.

This maybe why I am not in the Car business because I would stay up all night to figure out how to make this right, even to those of you who that have been less than pleasant.
 

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I think on one level we feel your pain betch23, on another level everyone points to this forum that has been extremely generous with sharing info (good and bad) on our cars. It is understandable to feel very upset about spending large sum of money to fix what should be working for quite long time (drivetrain), but as many said before me, you have been warned by your diligent research that this car is not for faint-hearted.

Also, you seem to imply that the new company should somehow shelter responsibility for the actions of the old company. I am afraid that this is not how it works in bankruptcy proceedings. Otherwise all the creditors could come and say - hey, you still owe me!

Let's hope that your repair bill is not as high as you are indicating and please note that there are other ticking-bomb problems that might surface (HV battery, display, 12V battery failure, generator failure, etc.). But you know all that, after all you said you did your research so you took calculated risk vs.price - right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I agree and disagree Antonin.

After years of witnessing sophisticated shuffling and reorganizations of companies, I see this issue haunting Fisker owners in the future. It is concerning that the parts blowing up are from the same location as the parent company...Not sure if that is or is not coincidence.

However, to yourself and those genuine individuals, who were informative and kind, my sincerest Thank You to all.
 
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