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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
so the newest numbers out are 750 Karma's have been delivered.. the total cost for developing and producing the Karma was 700-800 million..

How cool is that.. we are all driving million dollar cars right now.. :) Funny thing is I have been playing a game with people.. I have told 5 people that the Karma was 1 Million and three of them believed me.

The numbers really do not add up though.. how much profit is built into the Karma after production etc.. lets say $25k net profit.. they have built a total of 2000 cars. (50 Million Net) delivered 750. (18.75 Million Net)
They have 1 Billion in loans/funding, etc.. (I do not have specifics on their debt)
what is the interest rate on that amount of money? The US borrows money for a little less than 2% so the US Treasury Loans have to be more than that. DOE outstanding simple interest loan @ 2% is roughly 4 Million a year on the $193 million that has been received to date.

So the loan was awarded in 2009.. $193 was used.. 4 million a year in interest... at least 2 years of interest accumulated.. 18.75 million made..

so lets say I want to put up 25 Million.. what is my rate of return..
are any of those specifics published?

haha.. my mind was rolling and I thought I would open the topic for discussion..
thoughts? facts? future?

I have read somewhere that their goal was 10,000 karma's in 2012... they should hit the 1000 mark sometime next month. In order to increase that 10 times would they need to decrease the price? how will that impact the current owners? they are definitely setup to deliver 2500 or maybe 5000 this year. 2000 have been produced, anyone have current production numbers? (25 per week would amount to 1300 per year or 900 more Karma's through 2012) so 3000 made in 2012.. according to reports there are 3000 pre-orders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisker_Karma#Production_and_delivery

anyone have numbers on Leaf's delivered to date? (200 in 2011) Tesla's Delivered? (projected 5000 cars made in 2012?) Volts Delivered? (350 in 2011)

Like I mentioned.. I am opening the dialog because you guys are smart.. I can only research so much by myself...

To tell you the truth I could care less about any of the turf wars on these vehicles... My Karma is the coolest car period, by far.
 

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According to this article, the sales forecast has been revised down again, to 4,000 this year (initially it was 15,000, then revised down to 10,000). I wonder what all of the software revisions and flatbed trips are costing Fisker. I'd guess at least $500 per car each time a software revision is installed (say an avg. of 500 cars each time, that's $250K per release, not incl. flatbed expenses). It adds up, especially back when they were releasing revs every week or two.
 

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I believe that the forecast for 2012 Karma sales was reduced to 2000, I think or maybe 3000 at most. This is largely because they do not yet have sales in China or India and they won't get approved for sales there until later in the year. Also, its a ramp up thing for dealerships and such. I believe they do forecast 4000 units in 2013 when all markets are open.

The price of the Karma is likely to go up not down, Kyle. The margins are not that great right now and they need some supplier cost reductions and a little more price in the car to make the margins achieve new CEO LaSorda's goal of making Fisker profitable on just the Karma alone.

I was a car dealer for many years and I know the business. Car prices do not go down. There may be incentives, but they don't lower prices. We early adopters are rewarded with the lower price.
 

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EX:Shadow/Canyon #324
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Charged in The OC said:
I believe that the forecast for 2012 Karma sales was reduced to 2000, I think or maybe 3000 at most. This is largely because they do not yet have sales in China or India and they won't get approved for sales there until later in the year. Also, its a ramp up thing for dealerships and such. I believe they do forecast 4000 units in 2013 when all markets are open.
From a Bloomberg Businessweek article that was published when the Atlantic was launched earlier this month:

Fisker sold 250 of the cars in March, LaSorda told reporters after the news conference. The company expects to sell 4,000 worldwide by the end of the year, he said.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-04-04/fisker-readying-second-luxury-plug-in-after-karma-setbacks

So the forecast for 2012 is 4000 units, stated publicly by the new CEO. It seems to be a reasonable number, given that they sold 250 Karmas in March, and sales are just ramping up in a number of European countries like Germany. I'd be willing to bet that LaSorda's incentive compensation plan is tied to meeting/beating that number.
 
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