I think the answer to that would be: No.SoCalGuy said:
More delays at Newark...
So I was told last week and earlier this week by my dealer that my car would be in the lot "no later than Thursday" which is today. My dealer was literally waiting for a call from Fisker or the carrier to tell him what time today the cars would come, since he was told that a batch of cars left Newark on Saturday. Well, I just got off the phone with Fisker corporate and my car is still in Newark!!! Apparently a portion of the cars (~200 or so) that are at port were released to the shipping carrier today for road delivery! Best case is my car arrives in California next Friday; worst case is the week after! In the former scenario, I'm a happy camper because I can enjoy the three day weekend with my new toy. Worst case... well, let's say I will need to rethink the purchase!!! Fisker, are you listening???
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Talk about not paying attention, Brian, I just noticed that your HAL is in the Fisker Command Center. That is just too damn funny, in a laugh unitl you want to cry and strangle a Fisker employee kinda way.
I can only imagine that Fisker thinks they have such a beautiful car that people will be willing to deal with the headaches of ownership to own such a wonderful car.
I can only imagine that Fisker thinks they have such a beautiful car that people will be willing to deal with the headaches of ownership to own such a wonderful car.
I think that's exactly what's going on. They think people will be so seduced by the car's sexy looks that they'll overlook everything else about it including the exorbitant price. The way I look at it is the Karma is like the dumb hot blonde with the boob job: nice to look at and play around with, but nothing you'd want to get serious with.kabalah70 said:I can only imagine that Fisker thinks they have such a beautiful car that people will be willing to deal with the headaches of ownership to own such a wonderful car.
-Brian
Needless to say I'm getting more frustrated... might be a sign that I really should cancel my order....
Unfortunately, their corporate response to customer hardships has me seriously concerned about their viability. Especially once Tesla Model S's start selling, at 300 miles per charge (maybe 225 mpc once the EPA is done with it) a Signature Edition Tesla is cheaper and I don't think anyone will care about range anxiety because I am sure it will not be their only car. As sad as it may sound, I do not plan on participating in any IPO of Fisker because I am betting that people will try and boost the stock price up and when the Lockup period expires the insiders will dive out in droves, especially if they are doing their due dilligence and reading forums like this and see how poorly customers are being treated.
Like many of you, I have waited a long time for this car (2 years in my case), and have been subject to many promised dates for my car that failed to materialize.kabalah70 said:...especially if they are doing their due dilligence and reading forums like this and see how poorly customers are being treated.
But I don't view that I am being treeated poorly by Fisker. My dealer has kept me informed, as has the HQ Customer Service person that I first made contact with two months ago. In fact, I learned from her today that my Deep Ocean car had exited the body shop and was in general assembly.
But I won't be taking delivery of that car because, working with my dealer, they located a Shadow car for me, and I am taking delivery on Saturday.
In my view, Fisker is making their best efforts in bringing a very complex, ground-breaking product to the market. The company and the cars are not perfect, but no car is, and I'm really excited to be getting mine. I went into this eyes wide open that there were going to be problems, and I suspect I will see some more. But I have faith in my dealer, and that the company will stand behind the cars and fix any problems, just as they have done with the battery recall.
I keep seeing this, but fail to understand how this vehicle is more groundbreaking than the volt?dennis said:In my view, Fisker is making their best efforts in bringing a very complex, ground-breaking product to the market.
So it needs to be more groundbreaking than the Volt to be groundbreaking? Or just more groundbreaking than the 300+ other car models that are currently being produced?AnOutsider said:I keep seeing this, but fail to understand how this vehicle is more groundbreaking than the volt?dennis said:In my view, Fisker is making their best efforts in bringing a very complex, ground-breaking product to the market.
I personally think the Karma is largely the same tech as the Volt - it just has way nicer packaging (i.e. styling). I've never driven a Volt, and I'm sure many will tell me that it doesn't handle as well, not as fast, etc, but the main points remain: similar tech, 1,500lbs lighter, better gas mpg, 1/3 the price.
I agree entirely. It's everyone's "choice" to buy or cancel. If you're really not happy with them, then simply cancel. I still believe in them as they haven't pissed me off yet.dennis said:In my view, Fisker is making their best efforts in bringing a very complex, ground-breaking product to the market. The company and the cars are not perfect, but no car is, and I'm really excited to be getting mine. I went into this eyes wide open that there were going to be problems, and I suspect I will see some more. But I have faith in my dealer, and that the company will stand behind the cars and fix any problems, just as they have done with the battery recall.
Groundbreaking means the FIRST. "Breaking new ground" is a claim neither of these vehicles satisfies. Evolutionary, yes, but not revolutionary, and not groundbreaking. People love to use adjectives to describe things, but it lessens the importance of the word. It is a beautiful, luxurious car that uses a pretty unique propulsion system. That's how I'd describe it, but then again I spit out the Koolaid.dennis said:So it needs to be more groundbreaking than the Volt to be groundbreaking? Or just more groundbreaking than the 300+ other car models that are currently being produced?AnOutsider said:I keep seeing this, but fail to understand how this vehicle is more groundbreaking than the volt?dennis said:In my view, Fisker is making their best efforts in bringing a very complex, ground-breaking product to the market.
Actually, in a number of ways the Volt is more complex, with the ability for the gasoline motor to drive the wheels directly (through fancy planetary gear system). This makes the Volt a serial-parallel hybrid. I prefer the fully serial hybrid design myself, because the engine RPM can then be optimized better, but the Karma just uses an existing GM engine that is not tuned for this in the first place, so it does not gain the extra mileage that (e.g.) the Prius does (with its Atkinson cycle engine).SoCalGuy said:I personally think the Karma is largely the same tech as the Volt - it just has way nicer packaging (i.e. styling). I've never driven a Volt, and I'm sure many will tell me that it doesn't handle as well, not as fast, etc, but the main points remain: similar tech, 1,500lbs lighter, better gas mpg, 1/3 the price.
It would be nice to use a diesel engine, or, in the future when costs come down, a liquid-fuel microturbine, since there is more energy per unit volume in diesel fuel than in gasoline. (The advantage to the microturbine is that you can quite literally dump in any flammable liquid: gasoline, ethanol, biodiesel, jet fuel, butane, whatever. It all "just works". It also needs no oil, at least, if it's the one I like.
You just change an air filter when needed.)It would appear to me that you have a very narrow definition of groundbreaking.Thebreadman said:Groundbreaking means the FIRST. "Breaking new ground" is a claim neither of these vehicles satisfies. Evolutionary, yes, but not revolutionary, and not groundbreaking. People love to use adjectives to describe things, but it lessens the importance of the word. It is a beautiful, luxurious car that uses a pretty unique propulsion system. That's how I'd describe it, but then again I spit out the Koolaid.
The Volt is the FIRST production PHEV40 automobile. It is also the FIRST production PHEV that is capable of all electric operation across its entire performance envelope and with fully electric cabin heating and cooling capability.
The Fisker Karma is the FIRST production Luxury PHEV40+. It is also the FIRST production plug in series hybrid automobile available.
I would say that both of these vehicles are groundbreaking.
If I'm not mistaken the Volt is very nearly as fast as the Karma. When the Karma is in stealth mode, and the Volt operates in a similar state (full charge, engine not running), the 0-60 times are very close, are they not?SoCalGuy said:I personally think the Karma is largely the same tech as the Volt - it just has way nicer packaging (i.e. styling). I've never driven a Volt, and I'm sure many will tell me that it doesn't handle as well, not as fast, etc, but the main points remain: similar tech, 1,500lbs lighter, better gas mpg, 1/3 the price.
The Karma-to-Volt comparisons will continue as they are quite valid. What the Karma offers over the Volt is the promise of higher luxury and style. If that's worth over two times the price, and one's not afraid of the ownership experience of a completely new car from a completely new company, and you can afford it, then have at it.
Well, the Karma to Volt comparison is as valid as the Chevrolet Cruze to the Panamera diesel.
Yes, that's true, but given that these are the only two cars on the market with this type of drivetrain configuration (excepting the Volt-based Ampera), they are going to invite comparisons. I'm not suggesting a Karma is being cross-shopped with a Volt, that was more or less tongue-in-cheek. But it is fair to compare the executions of the concept, mechanically.
dennis, the issue is that I have never received a satisfactory reason as to why my SE #51 has not been delivered when as far as I know every other one has. There were no colors to choose, so there should have been no delay in awaiting that before setting a production date. I am no Al Gore or Leo DiCaprio, but I did expect a bit of priority handling having reserved a Signature Edition.
My dealer called me today with an update (my Deep Ocean EcoSport is "In transit to the port of entry" yay!) and he mentioned that they are still waiting to deliver a Signature Edition too. Fisker Atlanta has two customer deliveries on the road, one SE and one EcoStandard.kabalah70 said:dennis, the issue is that I have never received a satisfactory reason as to why my SE #51 has not been delivered when as far as I know every other one has. There were no colors to choose, so there should have been no delay in awaiting that before setting a production date. I am no Al Gore or Leo DiCaprio, but I did expect a bit of priority handling having reserved a Signature Edition.
dennis said:So it needs to be more groundbreaking than the Volt to be groundbreaking? Or just more groundbreaking than the 300+ other car models that are currently being produced?AnOutsider said:I keep seeing this, but fail to understand how this vehicle is more groundbreaking than the volt?dennis said:In my view, Fisker is making their best efforts in bringing a very complex, ground-breaking product to the market.
I would think so, though I guess it depends on how much wiggle room there is for you. If two companies set out to do the same thing, something that is not-yet-established, they could both be considered pioneers I suppose. However, if one company succeeds at something, then another company comes along and does the same thing, I wouldn't call the second company a pioneer.ground·break·ing/?ground?br?kiNG/
Adjective:
Breaking new ground; innovative; pioneering.
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