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and post what we are getting on our charges so they can better use that data and ask battery manufacturers for better performance. Please list all of the conditions.

Battery technology is getting better and better every year and I was told by an industry expert that they expect to have a battery that will take an average car 250km by 2015. For now though, let's collect as much data as we can from Fisker owners.

I will start with my last trip which was this morning and I drove my son to a hockey practice and back.

Starting battery capacity: 81km
Total range: 481km
Outside Temp: -1 degrees celsius
Driving conditions: 100% city driving/0 highway
Ending remaining charge: 6km
Distance traveled: 44km
Projected Distance possible: 46-48km

% of electric vs total mileage capacity: 9.8%

Notes: I was driving very conservative and efficiently, hardly having to use my brake.
 

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If the outside temperature was -1˚C, presumably you used seat heat and/or cabin heat. Which one(s)? (For mileage numbers heating and air-conditioning are significant factors.)
 

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Hockeydad, your mileage seems to be the worst reported in these forums. And you seem to be more bothered by the mileage than anyone else here. So my advice to you is to discuss the problem with your dealer to determine whether or not your battery is malfunctioning. If so, Fisker will give you a new battery which should solve your problem. If not, then it seems you will either have to learn to live with the car's available battery range or trade it.
 

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He is also in much colder Canada and most of us on forum seem to be California or Georgia so that could be a factor this time of year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
@pythagoras, fiskerbuzz
good point! Please put down the other circumstances that might affect the mileage. This is another good data point for engineers. I did have the seat warmers on and the fan was set at 2. If Fisker is going to sell their cars world wide, it would be good to have data from colder climates, no?

@ weird fishes
I am disappointed but I've past that now and want to see if we can help improve things for everyone. If everyone posts their true mileage, it could really help the engineers and consumers on what realistic driving is. The only way to get this type of data is from owners like us who use the car day to day. I did talk with my dealership about my battery and they did a whole diagnostic on it and said that my battery was working as it should.

so please pythagoras, fiskerbuzz, weird fishes and others, post your mileage because it will definitely do some good and in order to have a good sampling, we'll need at least a few hundred samples. I will collect them all, make a database and make it available to Fisker.
 

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I have been keeping a spreadsheet of my battery range. I got my car 1/4/12. Through the middle of October, with 1,950 all electric miles, I averaged 30.4 miles per charge. After I realized mid June that using the a/c results in about a 20% performance hit, I drove mostly without a/c. From mid June through mid October, I averaged 31.9 miles per charge.

At the beginning of November I got my vehicle back after it taking two weeks in the shop to get my battery replaced under warranty. That is a long (ugly) story and I will post about it soon. I am waiting to talk to the service tech and get a copy of the test reports that resulted in the battery being replaced. Since having the battery replaced I have driven 130 electric miles and have averaged 32.8 miles per charge.
 

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OK, made a bank-and-Costco run today. Trip was roughly 18 miles (I forgot to note the starting number, ending Trip A meter reading was 77.3 and I think it was around 59 to 60 last night). Outside temp 55˚F, did not feel the need for any heating or cooling. Did more-than-half freeway driving at 70 to 75 mph (speed limit is 65 but traffic runs 65 to 75...). Started with full battery (reading 50 miles), returned with reading at 27 miles. So that's 23 miles of indicated usage vs 18 miles of actual travel, or 78% (giving a projected range of ~39 miles). Conditions were of course fairly ideal here, but I was not driving gently by any means.
 

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It must be different to come from an Audi to a Karma than from my experience. I have through the years had car such as Fiat X19 (I learned how to do valve jobs on that one), MG midget, Ford Capri (European version), Lotus Esprit (89 and 97), Lamborghini Gallardo etc. There is probably a difference in tolerance that comes with routinely acquiring low volume manufacturers cars versus always buying the "run of the mill" cars. While I might put up with a lot of minor issues to me, a person coming from Audi or Mercedes might not have the stomach for it. This first edition Fisker might be the perfect car for me and the rest of us that do not want a Camry, but scary to the the average car buyer. I pray for some global warming so Hokeydad's battery will perform better for him. It would be sad to see him go back to his Audi and we'd lose all this activity on FiskerBuzz.
 

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Since I forgot to note the starting mileage number, I've computed it via google maps, it would actually be more like 17.2 miles than 18.0, making the ratio more like 75% than 78% and the total battery-only range about 37.5 miles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@karma373
can you give me the avg temperature you were driving in for those 1950 miles? You shouldn't have to make yourself uncomfortable driving without AC... come on, you paid $120k for the car not to drive uncomfortably. The purpose of this exercise is to show the engineers what typical driving patterns produce in mileage stats. It's good to know that you were using AC though, that's exactly the type of info we need. Can you tell me what the avg temp was for the first 1950miles, the mileage from June to mid Oct and the temp from the mileage from your last 130miles?

@fiskerbuzz, ok thanks so what I did is I recorded actual mileage stats and also expressed it as a %. I had to do it this way just in case there is a difference in the level of consumption in the indicator from beginning to end ie. perhaps the decline rate is shown to be higher at the beginning of the battery vs end, not sure so just in case I kept track of both stats. It would be good to get mileage stats from people who used up 80-90% of their charge over a day ... getting an avg mileage consumption is OK but not as granular, but I'll take all the stats I can get :)
 

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I drove 25.4 miles to see my dad according to google maps. 75% freeway at 70-75 mph, 25% city at ~45mph. It was 65 degrees outside. Started with a full battery indicating a 50 mile charge, arrived at destination with 24 miles left on battery. Reversed course and went into gas mode for the last 3 miles. Not bad at all...
 

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Comparing milage only makes sense if the following is noted too:
- How many people in the car (weight)
- Empty trunk/boot (weight)
- Heater / Ac on
- Outside temperature: Cold air has more resistance (density) than warm air.
- Humidity
- Headwind or tail wind
- Seat heater on
- rear window defroster on
- driving up / down hill on
- wipers on
- music loud
- iphones plugged in
- driving style
- number of stop-and-go's
- max speed
- winter or summer tires
- is the car clean or muddy


I have driven with 4 in the car, 4 seat heaters on, the heater/ac on, headlights on, wipers on and the music loud, showing off how fast the car could accelerate with lots of stops-and-go's. Luckily we have no hills in The Netherlands......Next time when I will drive in the same circumstance I will keep track of the milage for you so that we have a worst case scenario.
The best I already know: I got 76 kms out of a charge. Daytime drive, flat roads, 20 degrees centigrade, constant speed at around 90 kms/hour.
 

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Is there a Tool or app available to gather these information?
There is a sports app called run keeper. Using this, you must probably only record the starting and ending battery mileage.
... Not sure, what it does at 200km/h



Stefan
 

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I've charged/discharged my battery fully (with no Sport mode to affect calcs) and I've gotten 40-43 miles or so per charge in LA, with temps running between probably 58-70 deg, fan on and bluetooth music streaming.
 

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In California, where my outside temperatures vary from 45 degrees in the winter to 100 degrees in the summer, my car has always been between 40 and 44 miles of range, including using the heater, AC, radio, seat warmers, etc. I live in a hilly area, and I tend to speed... a lot.

Hockeydad, I have come to the conclusion that you have a particularly bad battery, which is exacerbated by the cold weather where you live. I would never in a million years suggest you should change your driving habits nor should you avoid the use of any car features. I would be unhappy as well, if I were you. My personal belief is that this car should be sold very carefully, and honestly, to those who live in areas of extreme temperature (just as one should not buy a Lamborghini to drive in the snow). Some cars just don't work well in some areas, and not just EVs.

I also think this real world data you provide is very valuable, and knowing more about the cold weather performance of this battery is helpful. I should note, however, that the Fisker engineers are keenly aware of all the performance characteristics of the battery, in all weather.

I know they spent years testing this battery, and the batteries available from other suppliers, and did so using all weather conditions, under load, up hills, at high speed, in cold and hot weather, etc. It is the reason they chose A123. Don't imagine for one minute that maximizing range hasn't been their top priority. The battery also has to deal with a myriad of other operating factors. It needs to deal with fast charge and discharge, it needs to be able to manage the various cells within the pack and understand the state of charge throughout the individual battery modules, it needs to be able to be read by the battery management software that decides how much to feed from the generator and how much to run the ICE. These are not trivial questions. Some of these are not things a pure EV needs to consider, and that is why any EV with extended range is more difficult to engineer than a pure EV.

Fisker didn't choose the A123 battery on a whim. Every battery was modeled or tested. They did not chose the size/capacity on a whim. They carefully balanced the need for range with weight and efficiency. They evaluated the differences between cylindrical vs prismatic lithium ion, the difference between iron phosphate and manganese chemistries, they looked at internal resistance factors, availability, manufacturability, cost, and durability and dependability. They changed battery suppliers more than once before finalizing with A123. You should know that a difficult issue is always to balance the ability to charge quickly with battery density. To hold more juice in a given battery size requires greater energy density. But with density comes greater resistance to the movement of power through the cells (of which there are thousands of cells in a pack that needs to be charged evenly). With higher resistance comes heat and the potential for battery failure and fire. So having a low-density, quick charging battery is necessary in order to integrate with an ICE extended range system.

It would be easier to just install a 100 mile pure EV system. But giving people the ability to drive across the county, state, or country without worrying about re-charging...that is the whole underlying theme of the car and its drivetrain. In that vein, the A123 battery, and the battery management system from Fisker and Quantum, are indeed GREAT pieces of engineering. They would have LOVED to have this go 70 miles on a charge, but they could only do so much with what the existing technology allows. Each generation will get better, but to imagine there is some magical solution to just "swap in" a new battery right now is overly optimistic, I'm sorry to say.

All my humble opinion, an I am sorry your car is not living up to your expectations. I am extremely happy that mine is, and I am not here to convince you that you are wrong, only to convince you that your experience may not be "the norm".
 

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I live in LA about 12 miles from the beach, so the temperature range isn't that great. Most driving done between mid 60's and mid 80's. Obviously cooler from Jan - June than from June - Oct. With the windows open I really don't need a/c most of the time. I've just been very curious as to what the maximum range is. I hit 40 miles per charge once on a long flat freeway trip.
 

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I drive daily to and from work. It is exactly 8.5 miles to the office and 8.5 miles back. The most I have lost on driving in Little Rock from March to Dec is 10 miles on charge. I have gotten there with the use of only 8 miles of charge. 10 miles charge use was in the summer with AC on the entire way set at 68 degrees. As it has gotten colder, I have dropped recently down to 9 miles of charge used and park at work with 41 left on the charge. I have not tracked just running around in the city. Remarkably enough, there seems to be no change between Karmas. I have an ecosport silver wind and over the last 2 weeks I have a loaner while mine is having the fan replaced and software updated, a black eco sport. The black one is off by about 0.5miles in range compared to the silver one. Both are eco sport. I love the range and milage I get and I run around almost exclusively on stealth and save the "gas" for those who need it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
@smithles
that's pretty amazing that you've had no losses so great news but can you let me know when you drive enough to drain pretty much the whole battery? I just want to keep stats on as many comparable trips as possible.

@ davecarguy
I asked them to do a full diagnostic on my battery and they said that it was functioning normally so I'm not sure what else to do. I can't seem to complain to anyone because I am always told to expect bad mileage which is just ... well... plain odd to me. If someone could just tell me I had a bad battery, that would make me feel a whole lot better which in a way is a reason why I am keeping track of all these stats so no one else has to go through what I am going through and perhaps I will find out that I do have a bad battery and that they'll replace it. In the meantime, what else can I do but to keep trying to find out what's what and if it helps the engineers with real life data then it helps everyone. If cold weather is playing a role, there must be a way to bring heat to the battery on cold days through exhaust piping or something but having EV's only sold to warm climates doesn't seem to be too appealing for car companies. The car companies would have a field day knowing this and investors would bail out of all the small EV companies. The other solution is to just hope for better battery technology that takes them well beyond the practical limit so if my friends are right and we have 250km ranged batteries by 2015, then even cold weather performance will still mean a car that can be used effectively by everyone.

So please everyone, especially those in colder climates... keep track of your mileage on a per charge basis and post the results so I can record them.

@socalguy
thanks for that but I really need specifics... the very next charge you do, please record the stats and the info and let me know. I want this to be as scientific as possible (not that this is but let's try and get quality data)

@flyingdutchman
yes, definitely all good points and this is additional info I need. If there are others in the car, let me know, heater etc... the radio being loud or not won't make a difference and the amt of times you stop and go is supposed to be taken into account as we want real life data, not some sort of made up crap that got us in this mess... regular driving by regular folk... we need those stats.

@ejo3rd
wow, that is amazing... you hold the record for best mileage and what's really amazing is that you got it while highway driving while most people have experienced much poorer numbers on high driving. In fact, my sales person recommended that I use gas on highways. Let's see if others post the same sort of numbers or if they report worse numbers. The more data the better.
 

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Hockeydad,

I almost never use sport mode while driving. If I know I'm going to exceed the battery capacity on a long freeway trip, I'll go into sport mode when I still have 26 miles of battery left. This way I can save the charge for around town stop and go driving. In any event, I try to get home with 1 mile left on the battery. Just a little personal thing to come home quietly. I used to wake the neighborhood up when leaving at 6:00a.m. in my R8 with an aftermarket exhaust!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
oh man, the R8 is one of my favourite cars! I heard it's coming out as a hybrid soon... is that true?

Can you do me a favour and just try and drive it without sports mode at all and see how far you can get on a single charge?
 
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