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Do you think the Fisker Karma was pushed to market before it was ready?

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Karma pushed to market before it was ready?

5455 Views 18 Replies 13 Participants Last post by  Fabulist, 
D
Fisker electric Karma was pushed to market before it was ready -- GigaOm - Cleantech News and Analysis

Electric car startup Fisker Automotive pushed its long-delayed inaugural electric car to market before it was market-ready in order to try to meet government milestones for a loan, according to a former Fisker employee that left the company. Over the past few months, as hundreds of Fisker’s extended-range electric Karmas have been shipped to customers, some of the cars have had a variety of technical issues..."
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No real evidence is presented in this article, though I have a lot of respect for Katie. You often expect some teething problems on a new product, but are the bugs because the car was put out before it was market ready?
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D
If it was brought to market too early, I wonder if that was because of the milestones for the DOE-loan. Because even with all the cars delivered so far those milestones were missed.

Maybe the company simply could not announce another (probably long) delay without losing all credibility with investors and deposit holders (yes, we, the people who were almost tearing down the place because of the delays). Or without going broke.
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LonePalmBJ
What is the point of this poll? To give credence and firepower to those looking to malign Fisker for their own ends? Count me out.
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D
Sorry, ignore the poll if you want. I thought Katie Fehrenbacher's article was post worthy, but she doesn't name this former Fisker employee, so who can tell about the credibility even though it sounds plausible. So I phrased it as a question, and then there was the poll option right next the the "post thread" button so I decided what the hell. I agree that polls are annoying.
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B
How can anyone say no? I mean seriously... this isn't even a fair question. I've had mine for 4 months and it's *still* in beta. This car probably won't be ready to ship until the fall.

-Brian
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LonePalmBJ
doug said:
Sorry, ignore the poll if you want. I thought Katie Fehrenbacher's article was post worthy, but she doesn't name this former Fisker employee, so who can tell about the credibility even though it sounds plausible. So I phrased it as a question, and then there was the poll option right next the the "post thread" button so I decided what the hell. I agree that polls are annoying.
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Doug,

My concern isn't that it's a poll, or that polls are annoying :) It's that none of us here have any actual insight into anything. It would be all speculation, conjecture and opinion, and I think there's plenty of that already in the Fiskerverse. Obviously the car has some issues, but it's irresponsible for me or anyone else to suggest that Fisker was acting in bad faith without any evidence. The unnamed former employee is welcome to his opinion as well, but unless there is some specific evidence that Fisker acted inappropriately, then it's just one person's opinion, who likely does not have perfect information. I'm just not interested in propagating the rumor mill.

Brent
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S
LonePalmBJ said:
Doug,

My concern isn't that it's a poll, or that polls are annoying :) It that none of us here have any actual insight into anything. It would be all speculation, conjecture and opinion, and I think there's plenty of that already in the Fiskerverse. Obviously the car has some issues, but it's irresponsible for me or anyone else to suggest that Fisker was acting in bad faith without any evidence. The unnamed former employee is welcome to his opinion as well, but unless there is some specific evidence that Fisker acted inappropriately, then it's just one person's opinion, who likely does not have perfect information. I'm just not interested in propagating the rumor mill.

Brent
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like :thumbup:
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Fabulist
There was plenty of pressure coming from many different directions for Fisker to start delivering cars. Just go back to the postings in the forums here from November/December of 2011 and you can see a small sampling of how the deposit holders were clamoring to get their cars, threatening to cancel orders or go to the press, and other strong emotions. As for the DOE, the company and the DOE actually negotiated a one year extension to the benchmarks late last year so the DOE pressure was probably a lot less than deposit holders and investors trying to see cars and results. As history has shown, the cars could have certainly used a little more incubation period, but IMHO, the DOE pressure was not the primary reason for pushing the cars out the door too soon.
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D
LonePalmBJ said:
Obviously the car has some issues, but it's irresponsible for me or anyone else to suggest that Fisker was acting in bad faith without any evidence. The unnamed former employee is welcome to his opinion as well, but unless there is some specific evidence that Fisker acted inappropriately, then it's just one person's opinion, who likely does not have perfect information.
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I'm not sure anyone suggested Fisker acted in bad faith or inappropriately (unless there was some known safety issue). Release before being "market ready" essentially comes down to business decision, be it for customer confidence or for DOE loans.
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C
I went for "unsure" because based on people's reports, the hardware was ready and the software was not. :D
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K
Some people would say the software still isn't ready. ---> This guy <--- but I am hoping that changes soon. I can understand the pressure and they are reaping as they sowed. Just as I am reaping the benefits of having a very unique car, but paying the price with glitches. In the end, I hope we both (Fisker and I) come out on top.
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M
:thumbup:
Sparky168 said:
LonePalmBJ said:
Doug,

My concern isn't that it's a poll, or that polls are annoying :) It that none of us here have any actual insight into anything. It would be all speculation, conjecture and opinion, and I think there's plenty of that already in the Fiskerverse. Obviously the car has some issues, but it's irresponsible for me or anyone else to suggest that Fisker was acting in bad faith without any evidence. The unnamed former employee is welcome to his opinion as well, but unless there is some specific evidence that Fisker acted inappropriately, then it's just one person's opinion, who likely does not have perfect information. I'm just not interested in propagating the rumor mill.

Brent
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like :thumbup:
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:thumbup:
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K
I will preface my remarks by saying I do want Fisker to succeed. As an early depositor and one who is still on the fence about taking delivery, I do want them to succeed.

I think the point of the thread is to peel back the onion and get ground truth. There are plenty of people still on the fence about buying one. They are entitled to insight from all angles. This isn't trolling. I find it amazing though that the car was sort of "unveiled" almost 4 years ago when many of us put down deposits. From there most car companies typically bring the car to market about a year or so later.

In this case, it would seem that the intent could have been to appease shareholders and investors that things were on track when they clearly were not. They consistently sent misleading emails from Heinrik himself saying the cars would be produced in late 09, then 2010, then 2011. It goes to the core of the claims being made by Fisker.

So if at this point, their stance is, "hey we are committing resources to it and we are working on it" it should be taken with a grain of salt considering previous claims. Unfortunately, I work for a former Dow Component company who is now in Chapter 11 and I see many similarities in terms of the claims and overstatements promised. We too brought a solution to market while it was seemingly in beta and it's a recipe for disaster. The public is voting with their wallets NOW, and Fisker's ultimate survival rests on their ability to squash the bugs ASAP. Not next month, not next year. NOW. There won't be a next year if it isn't fixed.

Early adopters can deal with the bugs, it's in their DNA. But the mainstream market, the one critical to the overall success of the Karma in enough volume to make them profitable - is what's at stake. It is a relavant point of discussion.
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dennis
ky_soldier said:
I will preface my remarks by saying I do want Fisker to succeed. As an early depositor and one who is still on the fence about taking delivery, I do want them to succeed.

I think the point of the thread is to peel back the onion and get ground truth. There are plenty of people still on the fence about buying one. They are entitled to insight from all angles. This isn't trolling. I find it amazing though that the car was sort of "unveiled" almost 4 years ago when many of us put down deposits. From there most car companies typically bring the car to market about a year or so later.

In this case, it would seem that the intent could have been to appease shareholders and investors that things were on track when they clearly were not. They consistently sent misleading emails from Heinrik himself saying the cars would be produced in late 09, then 2010, then 2011. It goes to the core of the claims being made by Fisker.

So if at this point, their stance is, "hey we are committing resources to it and we are working on it" it should be taken with a grain of salt considering previous claims. Unfortunately, I work for a former Dow Component company who is now in Chapter 11 and I see many similarities in terms of the claims and overstatements promised. We too brought a solution to market while it was seemingly in beta and it's a recipe for disaster. The public is voting with their wallets NOW, and Fisker's ultimate survival rests on their ability to squash the bugs ASAP. Not next month, not next year. NOW. There won't be a next year if it isn't fixed.

Early adopters can deal with the bugs, it's in their DNA. But the mainstream market, the one critical to the overall success of the Karma in enough volume to make them profitable - is what's at stake. It is a relavant point of discussion.
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There are two questions. The first is, "Was Karma pushed to market before it was ready?". IMHO that is a water under the bridge question. The Karma IS in the market, and Tom LaSorda has acknowledged to the owners that there are some problems.

The second, more important question, is "How quickly will Fisker, under the leadership of Lasorda, get the outstanding problems in the Karma fixed?"

I don't give a damn about the first question, but I'm really interested in the answer to the second one.
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Sigurd
I want people to know that there are trouble free Karmas out there. Mine is one. I don't have a CEL. I picked up my floor mats yesterday and had the dealership try to pull codes and there were NONE. My radio presets work, they are there every day. My satellite radio works. My cell phone BT works. My music over BT works. Everything I use on this car works. I have no reason to use the navigation, because I've lived in Dallas for 27 years. After 3 months of ownership I feel so confident in my car and love it so much that I am making it my daily driver.
So, for the people on the fence, you are missing out on the most exciting car I've ever owned.
Cheers,
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M
Sigurd said:
I want people to know that there are trouble free Karmas out there. Mine is one. I don't have a CEL. I picked up my floor mats yesterday and had the dealership try to pull codes and there were NONE. My radio presets work, they are there every day. My satellite radio works. My cell phone BT works. My music over BT works. Everything I use on this car works. I have no reason to use the navigation, because I've lived in Dallas for 27 years. After 3 months of ownership I feel so confident in my car and love it so much that I am making it my daily driver.
So, for the people on the fence, you are missing out on the most exciting car I've ever owned.
Cheers,
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:thumbup: Dito here in Arkansas Inferno Canyon Tri Tone
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Fabulist
And the plot thickens: See this thread.
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WOJO
Sigurd said:
I want people to know that there are trouble free Karmas out there. Mine is one. I don't have a CEL. I picked up my floor mats yesterday and had the dealership try to pull codes and there were NONE. My radio presets work, they are there every day. My satellite radio works. My cell phone BT works. My music over BT works. Everything I use on this car works. I have no reason to use the navigation, because I've lived in Dallas for 27 years. After 3 months of ownership I feel so confident in my car and love it so much that I am making it my daily driver.
So, for the people on the fence, you are missing out on the most exciting car I've ever owned.
Cheers,
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I love your post. :thumbup:
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Fabulist
MArkansas said:
Sigurd said:
I want people to know that there are trouble free Karmas out there. Mine is one. I don't have a CEL. I picked up my floor mats yesterday and had the dealership try to pull codes and there were NONE. My radio presets work, they are there every day. My satellite radio works. My cell phone BT works. My music over BT works. Everything I use on this car works. I have no reason to use the navigation, because I've lived in Dallas for 27 years. After 3 months of ownership I feel so confident in my car and love it so much that I am making it my daily driver.
So, for the people on the fence, you are missing out on the most exciting car I've ever owned.
Cheers,
Click to expand...
:thumbup: Dito here in Arkansas Inferno Canyon Tri Tone
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Mine is my daily driver to the tune of 70 miles a day. Love getting in it and driving away.
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