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Please explain.

Stealth mode, apparently new or beta CIU SW, range apparently increasing while sitting still. Does not appear to be plugged in and the ICE does not appear to be running. Cannot tell if battery capacity is increasing, or if the Guess-o-Meter is just recalibrating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Please explain.

Stealth mode, apparently new or beta CIU SW, range apparently increasing while sitting still. Does not appear to be plugged in and the ICE does not appear to be running. Cannot tell if battery capacity is increasing, or if the Guess-o-Meter is just recalibrating.
At .23 ICE is commanded on (idle) as the energy meter jumps briefly to 14kw then settles on 8kw. The CIU SW has nothing to do with the mod it just what is on this particular vehicle. Range increases a mile every ~2 mins at 8-9kw. Have a longer video showing 3 miles in ~5 mins. If you are interested I can PM you the link.
 

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At .23 ICE is commanded on (idle) as the energy meter jumps briefly to 14kw then settles on 8kw. The CIU SW has nothing to do with the mod it just what is on this particular vehicle. Range increases a mile every ~2 mins at 8-9kw. Have a longer video showing 3 miles in ~5 mins. If you are interested I can PM you the link.
Ah, this is a mod. That makes more sense. Yes, interested. Please PM me.

There's been lots of discussions about coding the car or third party mods since it was launched but this may be the first time I've ever seen evidence someone pulled it off.

BTW, I mentioned the CIU SW mostly to differentiate this car from the pre-production demo units that actually allowed the ICE to increase range when driven in Sport mode. (I know you were in Stealth but still the SW made for a nice irrefutable age indication.)

Also, curious about the Diagnostic warning at :29. It didn't lead to a MIL so unsure if it is related to the mod/ICE
 

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This is the software that everyone has been asking for for years. The ability to charge the HV battery with the ICE as in the way the karma was first designed preproduction software. Drive the car in sport mode and watch the range climb (based on how much or little demand from driving)
 

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Is this older software that was never released? Looking at the picture of the power generation screen, the graphic of the car has an actual engine. Current software has a square block for the engine that is either white when in Stealth or orange when in Sport. Plus the wheels might be slightly different on this graphic too, but I can't tell for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Is this older software that was never released? Looking at the picture of the power generation screen, the graphic of the car has an actual engine. Current software has a square block for the engine that is either white when in Stealth or orange when in Sport. Plus the wheels might be slightly different on this graphic too, but I can't tell for sure.

That is just the CIU software that was on the vehicle (BL500 CIU vs 510 CIU which is probably on your vehicle) and the only reason it was captured is to show power generation at idle (8-9kw)- it has nothing to do with the mod. The solution presented in the video is actually an upgradeable plug and play hardware solution that is completely different than the previous Quantum (HCU) implementation of charging on the fly.
 

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On a related note ... when the engine just randomly decides to turn on (like the 2nd time you start it after you fill the tank), do you at least get battery charge benefit from it? And, is it smart enough to wait to do that until your battery isn't already at 100%?
 

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That is just the CIU software that was on the vehicle (BL500 CIU vs 510 CIU which is probably on your vehicle) and the only reason it was captured is to show power generation at idle (8-9kw)- it has nothing to do with the mod. The solution presented in the video is actually an upgradeable plug and play hardware solution that is completely different than the previous Quantum (HCU) implementation of charging on the fly.
is this a mod that can be done by csp ?
 

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@JCMorrill when the ICE fires up at random for an OBD check it doesn't charge the battery much above maintaining. However with 520 software the ICE will not run no matter what above 95% SOC (don't quote me on the percentage). The important concept is that this will prevent misfires caused from an OBD forced GEN start at high battery level.
@Nin ja
Mike this will not be available at CSP providers at this point These upgrades are being developed separate of Fisker. Whether or not Fisker adopts any of this, I will make it available here at my place. @PowerSource is working on some amazing stuff.
 

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What is the result? Is it more or less efficient to run the ICE (low level), to recharge the car in "background" stealth, or place in SPORT mode.
 

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What is the result? Is it more or less efficient to run the ICE (low level), to recharge the car in "background" stealth, or place in SPORT mode.
I find it very hard to believe that charging your battery from ICE is more efficient than an Electric Utility Power-plant. I can understand however, that if you are out of electricity, it makes sense to charge the battery enough to shut off the engine when you are coasting or standing still for better fuel efficiency while on ICE... like a Prius Hybrid.
 

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I guess I need more info. The original software (as I recall), allowed the driver to put in SPORT mode and maintain battery at the same level where placed in SPORT mode -- i.e.: if placed in Sport at 40 mile SOC, the ICE would maintain that SOC. After 512 (i think), the Software only allowed the SOC to be maintained in SPORT at 26 Miles or less. Supposedly this was to meet certain emission standards and optimize efficiency. At any rate with the 50 miles of max STEALTH, it wasn't a big deal, since I drive in STEALTH locally and use SPORT on trips. Thus the question "is it more economically to background charge the battery. It would appear that charging less than the miles driven, would reduce the SOC over time. My hope was always battery technology, that would allow the STEALTH EV driving range extended -- Rumors of 100+ were floating about before A123 went belly up and then Fisker.

Any technical evaluation would be appreciated.
 

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@JCMorrill when the ICE fires up at random for an OBD check it doesn't charge the battery much above maintaining. However with 520 software the ICE will not run no matter what above 95% SOC (don't quote me on the percentage). The important concept is that this will prevent misfires caused from an OBD forced GEN start at high battery level.
@Nin ja
Mike this will not be available at CSP providers at this point These upgrades are being developed separate of Fisker. Whether or not Fisker adopts any of this, I will make it available here at my place. @PowerSource is working on some amazing stuff.
thanks Joe -- When 5:30 comes in and/or before november I'll make arrangements to get my car to you and then we can discuss any of the upgrades.
 

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Yes. Battery and charging time upgrades also being developed and test versions are being used. This being done for the original karma by independent developer. Any new technology implemented in the new karma would be done by Fisker and A123 but not likely retroactive or compatible with old karma.
@AIJohn it is not as efficient overall, but some would like the ability to just add to the range by using some fuel.
 

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Thanks @FiskerPhilly and @PowerSource. This is definitely interesting stuff. I would also be interested to know if the 6.6 kWh OBCM will be available from New Fisker. Once the Elevate program has been finalized, I think it will be easier for owners of the 2012 Karmas to decide if they want to modify their Karmas with "after-market" enhancements like this (at least that's my perspective). Also, whether the closest CSP we can use will support these after market enhancements is another key question.

On the original post topic, I am curious if charging the HV battery at a stand-still using this modification is more fuel efficient than charging while driving. I ask that as it would seem like the generator creates a certain amount of juice when running the engine. If you're recharging the HV battery faster while stopped, then it would seem like you would use less fuel in this scenario than recharging while driving as you're not competing with the energy demands that the keeping the 5300 lbs of the Karma moving (and re-starting from stops) create.

OK, my head hurts now from trying to explain the thoughts running through my brain on this...
 

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Thanks @FiskerPhilly and @PowerSource. This is definitely interesting stuff. I would also be interested to know if the 6.6 kWh OBCM will be available from New Fisker. Once the Elevate program has been finalized, I think it will be easier for owners of the 2012 Karmas to decide if they want to modify their Karmas with "after-market" enhancements like this (at least that's my perspective). Also, whether the closest CSP we can use will support these after market enhancements is another key question.

On the original post topic, I am curious if charging the HV battery at a stand-still using ...
@watt gas there is a much more mathematical explanation but at idle, the GEN SET uses a certain "X" amount of fuel to charge. However at idle the Gen can only product a minimal amount of energy to recharge. In no cases is the car more efficient with the GEN recharging the battery when compared to plugin. However if you charge at idle, vs driving, the idle charging is certainly more efficient as you remove the energy demand required to drive the car. However, idle loaded generator with AC on a hot day could pose a thermal cooling issue with airflow required to keep all the radiators happy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
For anything over 20 amps (OBCM) the wiring will have to be changed from the charge-port to the OBCM (currently 12-14GA) and can only draw max ~20A. The Amphenol connector will also need to be changed so basically a new harness would be required (and relocated) unless the OEM solution is paralleling two of the current Delta 3.3's together.

For the other question, actually more miles can be generated while driving (and more efficiently) vs standstill. From our cycle tests of the Karma the HCU has a load following setup where a torque command is sent based on immediate demand this is why you hear the engine rev up and down like a conventional vehicle- our charge controls follow a maximum efficiency logic (a hybrid model of base load and load following).
 

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Thanks for the answers on both questions. So it doesn't sound promising that the 6.6 kWh OBCM will be offered, but I'll wait and see.
 
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