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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Curious to know how many former Karma owners purchased a Model S? I know a few people personally who have done this and was curious if this was a pretty common scenario.
 

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My wife and I looked at a model S last weekend. we were rather disappointed with the car. She liked the outside but the interior was uncomfortable and looked cheap for a $100k vehicle. We both left the store hoping the Atlantic is an option one day. The Karma is still my daily driver.

#49 with 15K miles so far.
 

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Curious to know how many former Karma owners purchased a Model S? I know a few people personally who have done this and was curious if this was a pretty common scenario.
If there are any, they probably aren't monitoring this board very frequently.
 

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Curious to know how many former Karma owners purchased a Model S? I know a few people personally who have done this and was curious if this was a pretty common scenario.
Those few members whose vision loss hasn't yet progressed to total blindness, are having trouble gaining access to computer terminals at their county mental health facility.
 

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Those few members whose vision loss hasn't yet progressed to total blindness, are having trouble gaining access to computer terminals at their county mental health facility.
That's way too harsh. The Model S is not really ugly, it's just bland. I think this level of opprobrium should be reserved for those who go from a Karma to a Porsche Panamera. That's like divorcing Brooklyn Decker to marry Susan Boyle for her health insurance. :D
 

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That's way too harsh. The Model S is not really ugly, it's just bland. I think this level of opprobrium should be reserved for those who go from a Karma to a Porsche Panamera. That's like divorcing Brooklyn Decker to marry Susan Boyle for her health insurance. :D
Given the choice, I would pick the panamera plug-in any day over the tesla. It may have a big butt, but at least it has character and a pedigree. The stylish interior of the panamera and its handling capability make up for its exterior design flaw. The low budget interior of the tesla compliments its plane jane appearance. Maybe not as green as a tesla (if you drive more than 25 miles), but the Porsche has a soul.
 

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EX:Shadow/Canyon #324
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I've driven my Karma 10,000 miles in 18 months and my Model S 5,000 miles in 9 months. I'm finding that I drive the Model S more and more and the Karma less and less. Why?

1) I'm always driving electric in the Model S. I don't like it when the Karma's ICE comes on, so I only use it for short trips.

2) The Model S is a much more practical car for rear seat passengers, trunk space etc.

3) Carpool access is really important in the Bay Area and the Model S has those white stickers. Its also really nice to have the traffic data displayed, even when you are not navigating to a particular destination.

4) The acceleration is awesome.

5) With a 210 mile practical range, I have zero range anxiety. I never drive that far in a day, so I can always just charge at home at night.

I don't like the interior of the Model S, but I have gotten used to it, like I've gotten used to the substandard UI in the Karma. And I don't like the handling, but plan on getting the P+ suspension retrofit when it is available. I've test driven the P+ twice and it handles as well or better than the M5 and the Karma.

The Karma definitely turns more heads and has a more luxurious interior. But in the end I've concluded I'm a function over form kind of guy. And that explains why I'm driving the Model S more and why I own a McLaren 12C and not a Ferrari 458. Different strokes for different folks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I've driven my Karma 10,000 miles in 18 months and my Model S 5,000 miles in 9 months. I'm finding that I drive the Model S more and more and the Karma less and less. Why?

1) I'm always driving electric in the Model S. I don't like it when the Karma's ICE comes on, so I only use it for short trips.

2) The Model S is a much more practical car for rear seat passengers, trunk space etc.

3) Carpool access is really important in the Bay Area and the Model S has those white stickers. Its also really nice to have the traffic data displayed, even when you are not navigating to a particular destination.

4) The acceleration is awesome.

5) With a 210 mile practical range, I have zero range anxiety. I never drive that far in a day, so I can always just charge at home at night.

I don't like the interior of the Model S, but I have gotten used to it, like I've gotten used to the substandard UI in the Karma. And I don't like the handling, but plan on getting the P+ suspension retrofit when it is available. I've test driven the P+ twice and it handles as well or better than the M5 and the Karma.
All this plus you still have a warranty if something breaks instead of Paddington Posawatz and his employees hibernating for the summer.
 

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the panamera looks better then the model s.
I would never trade the karma for a model s. Maybe would get the model x for second car but maybe then there are some more to choose from.


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I've driven my Karma 10,000 miles in 18 months and my Model S 5,000 miles in 9 months. I'm finding that I drive the Model S more and more and the Karma less and less. Why?

1) I'm always driving electric in the Model S. I don't like it when the Karma's ICE comes on, so I only use it for short trips.

2) The Model S is a much more practical car for rear seat passengers, trunk space etc.

3) Carpool access is really important in the Bay Area and the Model S has those white stickers. Its also really nice to have the traffic data displayed, even when you are not navigating to a particular destination.

4) The acceleration is awesome.

5) With a 210 mile practical range, I have zero range anxiety. I never drive that far in a day, so I can always just charge at home at night.

I don't like the interior of the Model S, but I have gotten used to it, like I've gotten used to the substandard UI in the Karma. And I don't like the handling, but plan on getting the P+ suspension retrofit when it is available. I've test driven the P+ twice and it handles as well or better than the M5 and the Karma.

The Karma definitely turns more heads and has a more luxurious interior. But in the end I've concluded I'm a function over form kind of guy. And that explains why I'm driving the Model S more and why I own a McLaren 12C and not a Ferrari 458. Different strokes for different folks.
Wow Dennis - looks like you've been converted! Are you going to sell your Karma and get an MSP+?
 

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EX:Shadow/Canyon #324
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Wow Dennis - looks like you've been converted! Are you going to sell your Karma and get an MSP+?
Yes, I am probably going to sell the Karma. But I am not going to buy a Perf +. Tesla just unbundled a lot of the included options (alcantara, seats, spoiler) and raised prices on other options, so a comparably equipped car to mine would cost $12K more plus the $6500 for the P+ suspension. Add to that tax, license and depreciation and I would be looking at about $40K. So I am talking to Tesla about getting the P+ suspension/wheels/tires retrofitted to my Signature Performance.
 

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Yes, I am probably going to sell the Karma. But I am not going to buy a Perf +. Tesla just unbundled a lot of the included options (alcantara, seats, spoiler) and raised prices on other options, so a comparably equipped car to mine would cost $12K more plus the $6500 for the P+ suspension. Add to that tax, license and depreciation and I would be looking at about $40K. So I am talking to Tesla about getting the P+ suspension/wheels/tires retrofitted to my Signature Performance.
Wow - I was joking about selling the Karma, but guess you weren't! Why not just keep her until she falls apart (if ever)?
 

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EX:Shadow/Canyon #324
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Wow - I was joking about selling the Karma, but guess you weren't! Why not just keep her until she falls apart (if ever)?
I actually need the garage space. Currently the Model S sits outside and has to be washed more than once a week. My wife has "suggested" that I need to downsize. :D

We'll miss you Dennis.
Thanks Ira.
 

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EX:Shadow/Canyon #324
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wow - that anyone would go from a Karma to that Tesla S is amazing to me, why not just go for the Prius? Can you say Fugly?

lame
Obviously you've never driven a P85+.
 

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wow - that anyone would go from a Karma to that Tesla S is amazing to me, why not just go for the Prius? Can you say Fugly?

lame
Still amazes me, even after all that has happened, that so many are "That car sucks because it's super ugly". Shows who is going for form and who is out for function.

This post pretty much shows where the thinking is by going right for looks. To answer a question that doesn't REALLY need answering: A Prius is not an EV. A Prius is not a performance vehicle. I could go on, but I can tell you really didn't want an objective discussion on that point.

Yes, I am probably going to sell the Karma. But I am not going to buy a Perf +. Tesla just unbundled a lot of the included options (alcantara, seats, spoiler) and raised prices on other options, so a comparably equipped car to mine would cost $12K more plus the $6500 for the P+ suspension. Add to that tax, license and depreciation and I would be looking at about $40K. So I am talking to Tesla about getting the P+ suspension/wheels/tires retrofitted to my Signature Performance.
With rumors of the retrofit being something like 13k, you're still going to spend a crapload of money. Are you going for the staggered wheels too? Personally, I'd pass as it would just mean I can't rotate and extend the (already short) life of the tires :dodgy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
With rumors of the retrofit being something like 13k, you're still going to spend a crapload of money. Are you going for the staggered wheels too? Personally, I'd pass as it would just mean I can't rotate and extend the (already short) life of the tires :dodgy:
Is this figure for the full package or the neutered P+ package the just includes the wider rims/PS2 tires, upper links and control arms with P+ bushings?

To me the Model S handling is unstable and syrupy on the freeway. If this package pushes the Model S into Karma, M5 and dare I say E63 class then it is a necessity and well worth it. From the beginning we were promised a car that would handle amazingly; the P+ hopefully makes good on that promise.

wow - that anyone would go from a Karma to that Tesla S is amazing to me, why not just go for the Prius? Can you say Fugly?

lame

true the car looks like a 6 year old Jag XF but it is a very useful vehicle that has good performance. The Prius is very slow and looks worse than the Jag XF. Plus there is no warranty with the Karma and no information at all. If a company is willing to treat its customers like this; why support that company? Money problems are one thing but just going completely dark for months at a time is completely unacceptable. Like it or not the closest competitor to the Karma is the MS (both are rear engine powered EV's) that are/were priced closely.
 

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EX:Shadow/Canyon #324
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With rumors of the retrofit being something like 13k, you're still going to spend a crapload of money. Are you going for the staggered wheels too? Personally, I'd pass as it would just mean I can't rotate and extend the (already short) life of the tires :dodgy:
Tesla has a reason to specify the 265 rear tires and wider wheels on the P+. The additional rear rubber is required to compensate for the reduced traction from the stiffer rear bushings.
 
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