WTF? What justifies a second price increase on a car that has yet to be delivered to customers?
- Dennis
- Dennis
Fox News reports increase in Karma price
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2011...price-increase-on-karma-plug-in-hybrid-sedan/
Supposed to go into effect on Thursday, per the above article, and those with existing deposits can "place firm orders at the original price", whatever that means, by "January 15th".
Looks like I managed to get mine in on time, anyway.
Supposed to go into effect on Thursday, per the above article, and those with existing deposits can "place firm orders at the original price", whatever that means, by "January 15th".
Looks like I managed to get mine in on time, anyway.
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
Wow, that's bad. The car simply isn't worth that much money. It was very difficult to justify at the current price, but there's no way I could recommend it for the new price. Good thing the price increase doesn't apply to existing orders, but I think this will seriously reduce the number of Karmas on the road next year.
-Brian
-Brian
New buyers will have to wait for the 0.9% financing and $2500 cash back offers that are sure to follow the drop in demand...
what is FIsker trying to pull here? Scare deposit holders into buying or "being priced out" forever? Seems like a bubble in another asset class from a few years ago!
I guess if you are one of the 3000 deposit holders who have waited patiently, they are telling you to come pick a configuration or pay a higher price.SoCalGuy said:what is FIsker trying to pull here? Scare deposit holders into buying or "being priced out" forever? Seems like a bubble in another asset class from a few years ago!
It seems strange to me that in the last year, the quoted number of deposit holders has never changed.
BillyO
It's bad enough they raised prices $8K on us before and also charge us for things like exterior paint ($3K).... other companies would have grandfathered existing depositors into the original pricing scheme... or offer some other free upgrade/credits... ala Tesla or McLaren... but not Fisker. This is really frustrating and I just may cancel out of principle.BillyO said:I guess if you are one of the 3000 deposit holders who have waited patiently, they are telling you to come pick a configuration or pay a higher price.SoCalGuy said:what is FIsker trying to pull here? Scare deposit holders into buying or "being priced out" forever? Seems like a bubble in another asset class from a few years ago!
It seems strange to me that in the last year, the quoted number of deposit holders has never changed.
BillyO
This is just another bad move by Fisker's PR team who clearly have no clue. You just don't do things like this. You don't raise a product's price the same day that it hits the shelves. Stupid. They should have at least waited for the current orders to get delivered, and announced this in the spring.
The Karma has always been priced too low in the US. Compared to Europe and compared to other cars with the same features. Everyone always compares the price of the Fisker to that of the Porsche Panamera. But once you've configured a Panamera or even an expensive Audi, Mercedes or BMW with the same options that are standard on the Karma (navigation, park assist, camera, voice control, all-leather, bigger wheels, LEDs, etc, etc) those cars become much more expensive.
And let's not forget that the Karma is loaded with expensive technology (huge battery, electric engines, generator, solar roof). It is amazing that it is competing in price with much less advanced cars.
And let's look at the economic side. Fisker has to make money to survive. Ofcourse they will sell more cars at a lower price, but if every sale is a loss (especially the US-cars) then eventually they will run out of money.
And let's not forget that the Karma is loaded with expensive technology (huge battery, electric engines, generator, solar roof). It is amazing that it is competing in price with much less advanced cars.
And let's look at the economic side. Fisker has to make money to survive. Ofcourse they will sell more cars at a lower price, but if every sale is a loss (especially the US-cars) then eventually they will run out of money.
Get yourself one of the Signature Editions if you can, if they will release it for the pre-ordered price. They still haven't changed their price and would have several lawsuits if they did because it was originally listed as a firm price with the $5000 deposit when regular editions were a $1000 deposit with and MSRP. My decision to get a Signature Edition is getting better everyday. Still, I am having my dealer do up the bill of sale today, just in case Fisker tries something.
The reality is that there is about $150k to $200k worth of technology packed into these Karma's. Anyone getting in for less than $120k right now can consider it a deal. I can understand the price increase frustrates, but that's the nature of the beast in starting a HI-TECH Auto company.
The demand in Europe is off the charts. Several countries need much more than the current limit of 75 ea. Of course that's about to change any week now - for the better.
Demand in the US was very strong...dipped by 15% to 20% or so....and right back up again now that people see/driven the post-production vehicle.
I expect Fisker will sell 1500 to 2000 cars through April. May - Dec they could sell another 4000 to 6000. Just my opinion...
The demand in Europe is off the charts. Several countries need much more than the current limit of 75 ea. Of course that's about to change any week now - for the better.
Demand in the US was very strong...dipped by 15% to 20% or so....and right back up again now that people see/driven the post-production vehicle.
I expect Fisker will sell 1500 to 2000 cars through April. May - Dec they could sell another 4000 to 6000. Just my opinion...
Really? My $500 iPad has more technology than that car. Sorry, but putting a battery and electric motors on a car is no justification for the price. The quality of the car is fine, but no better than my Lexus at half the price. The performance is downright awful for a car in that price range - probably the slowest $100k+ car out there. There are *much* better cars from proven companies that you can buy for that. There may not be any better "looking" cars for that price, but that's only part of what makes a car a good car.
-Brian
-Brian
Brian - Then don't buy the car Brian. I have a few friends at AV that will take your order..provided you're still on the list.
brian said:Really? My $500 iPad has more technology than that car. Sorry, but putting a battery and electric motors on a car is no justification for the price. The quality of the car is fine, but no better than my Lexus at half the price. The performance is downright awful for a car in that price range - probably the slowest $100k+ car out there. There are *much* better cars from proven companies that you can buy for that. There may not be any better "looking" cars for that price, but that's only part of what makes a car a good car.
-Brian
So many silly statements in this post. Putting a battery and electric motors into a car is no justification for the price? Why in the world is it not? You're paying for a car with essentially twice the powertrain equipment as a standard vehicle, and battery prices are huge at our current state of technology.brian said:Really? My $500 iPad has more technology than that car. Sorry, but putting a battery and electric motors on a car is no justification for the price. The quality of the car is fine, but no better than my Lexus at half the price. The performance is downright awful for a car in that price range - probably the slowest $100k+ car out there. There are *much* better cars from proven companies that you can buy for that. There may not be any better "looking" cars for that price, but that's only part of what makes a car a good car.
-Brian
Th performance is not awful, straight-line acceleration is what you should expect for the weight of the vehicle. Handling and ride have been praised.
Yeah, and the handling and ride of a $20k Toyota Camry have been praised too, but that's not the point. The Karma is priced in the ultra-luxury range, so one expects ultra-luxury performance and features. This car has neither. It's luxury yes, but not at the level that justifies this new price, and the performance is extremely sub-par when most cars in this category are 0-60 in 5.0 seconds or less. Dunno... I guess there are folks who get wooed by the sexy looks, but when I look at the whole package it seems like it's a $70k car with a lot of lipstick.
-Brian
-Brian
Brian - Are you not the owner or originator of the Fisker "OWNERS" Club...? If you really feel the Fisker Karma seems like a $70k car with lipstick, then why did you put a deposit down on one in the first place...? I read your post and you flip - flop more than my younger sister in a shoe store.
I'm disappointed to hear your lack of faith or interest in the car, but enough already. Most of us here don't have to drive 125k mph to the office. Most of us hear are ready for a change....we want to give the Fisker Karma a shot. I have no problems with BMW, Mercedes, Porsche or Toyota (Lexus)...as this board has probably owned some if not all. However, We believe in the vision and passion of Henrk Fisker and team behind him. I personally love the Karma. I love the fact that I can drive 45 to 52 miles on battery as it fits my daily commute. I know as AONE and battery companies advance, I'll one day replace the existing battery with one that gets 100 to 200 miles per full charge. I'm ready to give OPEC the middle finger and and rid myself of foreign oil. You just wait until things escalate with Iran... You're looking at $150 oil again....perhaps more.
Look...I understand that the car may be out of your price range (or not) at this point....for that I hope you consider the Nina next year or 2013. What I have little tolerance for is your juvenile comments, especially as the OWNER of Fisker Owners Club. The harsh reality is that you don't know WTF your talking about as it relates to the technology in this car. It is one thing to design games on an IPAD...another to build the Karma.
I'm disappointed to hear your lack of faith or interest in the car, but enough already. Most of us here don't have to drive 125k mph to the office. Most of us hear are ready for a change....we want to give the Fisker Karma a shot. I have no problems with BMW, Mercedes, Porsche or Toyota (Lexus)...as this board has probably owned some if not all. However, We believe in the vision and passion of Henrk Fisker and team behind him. I personally love the Karma. I love the fact that I can drive 45 to 52 miles on battery as it fits my daily commute. I know as AONE and battery companies advance, I'll one day replace the existing battery with one that gets 100 to 200 miles per full charge. I'm ready to give OPEC the middle finger and and rid myself of foreign oil. You just wait until things escalate with Iran... You're looking at $150 oil again....perhaps more.
Look...I understand that the car may be out of your price range (or not) at this point....for that I hope you consider the Nina next year or 2013. What I have little tolerance for is your juvenile comments, especially as the OWNER of Fisker Owners Club. The harsh reality is that you don't know WTF your talking about as it relates to the technology in this car. It is one thing to design games on an IPAD...another to build the Karma.
I put my deposit down when the car was $88k, and at that price it seemed like a better option than buying the Tesla that I was looking at. As things dragged on my enthusiasm wavered *a lot*, but I stuck with it because I had committed myself and delivery always "appeared" to be imminent month after month.
I've been right on the edge of canceling my order (as is evident from my many posts on the subject), but luckily I'm getting mine at the old price, not this new ridiculously overpriced price that starts in 2 days. I would *never* buy this car or be able to recommend it at the new price. There are just too many other better cars out there that are much more fun to drive for that kind of money. Sorry, but it's true. I've driven this car, and frankly it's good, but not great. It's a great eco-car for sure, but if you ignore the eco aspect and focus just on the car itself and the driving experience it's really just a B or B+.
As for the Owner's Club, yes, I was very enthusiastic about all of this a year ago when I started it. But honestly, right now I have very little interest in pursuing it because I have no faith in Fisker Automotive, and this whole experience has been one aggravation and disappointment after another. I really think that anyone who believes that $120k for this car is a great deal needs to go drive some other cars in that price range, and then you'll know what I'm talking about.
I think the best comparison is my old 1993 Mitsubishi 3000. That was the best looking car you could get back then without buying a supercar:
![]()
It looked like a Ferrari, but only cost $24k. It may have looked like a Ferrari, but it was no Ferrari, and Mitsubishi knew that. They didn't jack the price up to ridiculous levels based on the car's looks. It was priced accordingly for the car's performance and quality at the time. The Karma is essentially the same thing - the best looking non-supercar that you can buy, but they're jacking it up to supercar prices based on that alone even tho nothing else about the car warrants it.
-Brian
I've been right on the edge of canceling my order (as is evident from my many posts on the subject), but luckily I'm getting mine at the old price, not this new ridiculously overpriced price that starts in 2 days. I would *never* buy this car or be able to recommend it at the new price. There are just too many other better cars out there that are much more fun to drive for that kind of money. Sorry, but it's true. I've driven this car, and frankly it's good, but not great. It's a great eco-car for sure, but if you ignore the eco aspect and focus just on the car itself and the driving experience it's really just a B or B+.
As for the Owner's Club, yes, I was very enthusiastic about all of this a year ago when I started it. But honestly, right now I have very little interest in pursuing it because I have no faith in Fisker Automotive, and this whole experience has been one aggravation and disappointment after another. I really think that anyone who believes that $120k for this car is a great deal needs to go drive some other cars in that price range, and then you'll know what I'm talking about.
I think the best comparison is my old 1993 Mitsubishi 3000. That was the best looking car you could get back then without buying a supercar:
It looked like a Ferrari, but only cost $24k. It may have looked like a Ferrari, but it was no Ferrari, and Mitsubishi knew that. They didn't jack the price up to ridiculous levels based on the car's looks. It was priced accordingly for the car's performance and quality at the time. The Karma is essentially the same thing - the best looking non-supercar that you can buy, but they're jacking it up to supercar prices based on that alone even tho nothing else about the car warrants it.
-Brian
I am annoyed by many things that Fisker does but, unlike @Brian, I see the price increase as a good business move by Fisker for a number of reasons:
1. This signals that Fisker is confident that they have mastered the production and delivery cycle and are prepared to manufacture these fairly complex cars in serious numbers;
2. It gets the fence sitters to fish or cut bait. If you can afford a $100K car, you can afford a $106K car and if a car is worth $100K, it's worth $106K. Fisker and its investors have been taking all the risk up to this point since we all have small refundable deposits, it's time to separate the posers and wannabees from the real buyers;
3. It instantly increases the values of our cars because current buyers (such as the folks on this Forum) are not affected by the price rise; and
4. It gives the dealers a tool to encourage buyers to buy now or to negotiate it away to close a deal since this is Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) and the dealer is free to set the sale price for each sale.
I am a little annoyed at Fisker for having to learn about this from Fox news rather than from Fisker telling me about it and reassuring me that my price is not affected, but that's Fisker for you.
-- Fab.
1. This signals that Fisker is confident that they have mastered the production and delivery cycle and are prepared to manufacture these fairly complex cars in serious numbers;
2. It gets the fence sitters to fish or cut bait. If you can afford a $100K car, you can afford a $106K car and if a car is worth $100K, it's worth $106K. Fisker and its investors have been taking all the risk up to this point since we all have small refundable deposits, it's time to separate the posers and wannabees from the real buyers;
3. It instantly increases the values of our cars because current buyers (such as the folks on this Forum) are not affected by the price rise; and
4. It gives the dealers a tool to encourage buyers to buy now or to negotiate it away to close a deal since this is Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) and the dealer is free to set the sale price for each sale.
I am a little annoyed at Fisker for having to learn about this from Fox news rather than from Fisker telling me about it and reassuring me that my price is not affected, but that's Fisker for you.
-- Fab.
Look...I'm pleased you're taking delivery as a new owner of the Karma.
I hope you enjoy the car and sing its' praises in the future.
I hope you enjoy the car and sing its' praises in the future.
I agree with everything Fabulist said, but I'd add 1 more thing:
5. It means there will be fewer Karmas on the road, so ours will be more special. When you pay $100k+ for a car you expect some exclusivity, and the price increase will help with that.
-Brian
5. It means there will be fewer Karmas on the road, so ours will be more special. When you pay $100k+ for a car you expect some exclusivity, and the price increase will help with that.
-Brian
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