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Carved - Karma bites back
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Guys
I am following the Fisker story for a long time and was hopefull when finally someone took charge in putting Fisker back on track, but ...

I believe that Wanxiang will never revive Fisker and that our cars are already classic cars. The technology in our cars is already out dated and will never get updated anymore.

So maybe in the future if you take care of your car it will be a real classic and maybe it will also hold some value.

For now I classify my car as Dead. I classify my car as one of the worst purchases I did. A purchase where I have made a decision by the heart.

Steve
 

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I believe that Wanxiang will never revive Fisker and that our cars are already classic cars. The technology in our cars is already out dated and will never get updated anymore.
Steve
Steve,

Can I ask what you're basing this opinion on? Is it just the lack of communication and any apparent progress, or do you have any actual evidence or insight into their intent?

I'm an optimist by nature, so I'm hanging on to the following factors for hope:
  • They're not going to walk away from their $150MM initial investment without a fight
  • They seem to be actively hiring dozens of people and the company has grown in size considerably
  • While slow, they have been delivering on their promises with respect to the Customer Care program; interacting with their onboard service centers, sending parts, providing guidance, paying for covered work, etc

I am aware that this could all be wishful thinking, but I'm trying to avoid equating "I don't know what's going on" with "Nothing is going on"

Brent
 

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Carved - Karma bites back
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79 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It is based on feeling rather then on facts. They should have shifted faster.
Market is evolving quickly and the competitive edge they had by acquiring Fisker is gone.

All major brands are coming out with hybrids & plugin Hybrids with technology far superior then the one Fisker Karma is having.

So I do not see how they are going to gain marketshare in a market already getting saturated.

Steve
 

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I'm anxious to get my (a) karma soon, but I must admit I feel the same way.

The fisker situation seems so very similar the the saab story (no pun intended) that I have a very hard time believing fisker will make cars ever again.

Nevs bought saab from spyker, made a couple hundred cars, then went bust......

By the time new fisker has a new location set up with an assembly line, agreements set up with suppliers, a dealer base, etc. it will be years away. If ever...

A shame too, cause the karma is a heck of a car.
 

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It's nice to see that new fisker is taking care of current karma owners as best they can though.

Says a lot about the new owners of the company AFAIC
 

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Don't base the current model on the future model Fisker is working on . The technology they are working will blow away any current model of any hybrid . I base some of these statements from what I've been told by present Fisker engineers and support personal .

As far as the Karma I tend to agree we won't see much change of the car they can't redesign the car due to costs of getting the car recertification . I'm hope they continue with the software updates they were working on before the closing .

Just as owners the dealerships are also in the dark which direction Fisker is taking . The owner of my dealership comes to me asking me the latest news from Fisker . It's very frustrating working on a car line not knowing my future and the future of the brand .
On many occasions I've expressed my concern that Fisker releases some news to the present owners even if it's just a statement yes we are here working on updates but nothing has been said .

Right now the brand is tainted the name and the car how is someone going to invest in another car when they are going to judge the company on its past .
 

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My feeling is they were very close to agree on a restart of the production line in Finland but its very quiet there now.
Sorry to disappoint you, but Fisker and Valmet have broken up, pretty much for good this time. While I have little doubt that Fisker production will resume, it will not be in Finland. Depending on your point of view, this could be a bad thing because it will delay the start of production while Fisker sets up a factory somewhere else, or it could be a good thing to get away from the logistical complexity of shipping US-made parts to Finland to have theme assembled into a car, then importing the car back from Finland. It will also make the second most often asked questions by people encountering a Karma for the first time, "where is that car made", a lot easier to answer.
 

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Yes it will be built again. My take on the current status is that the company is now operating in a partitioned fashion with one partition working on issues with karma (thus trying to correct the bugs to get a correct version to production). The larger partition now forming is the new side of the company working on completely new technology, Atlantic and other potential models to release perhaps as a group. That is where they are focusing new technology. In many ways the sector dealing with Karma is smaller and using the current car along with input from guys like Adam and myself to help improve it. While I agree, the pace is frustrating, at least the new owner is a bit more of a realist in admitting it may take many years to see a profit.
 

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Early Adopter
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1,255 Posts
If they are working on technology for the new cars seems they should consider a replacemaent for the ICE with a Fuel-Cell -- This article is a good intro to the concepts http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publications/pdf/FSEC-CR-1995-14.pdf

I would think a retrofit of the KARMA with a Fuel Cell rather then an ICE would help make one the cars most annoying issue go away - the ICE noise which sound like crap. besides it could lower the weight -- they may be able to shring the barrtery to 16Kw and use the space for the fuel cell hydrogen or a flow battteryf fluid - that may give us extra accelaration if they can shed a fee hundred pounds in the process...
 

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While trying not to depress anyone here I think that current Karma owners will be left out in the cold by new FA owners. The car is a liability and cannot be fixed by small upgrades. Lot of things will need to be redesigned and it is not feasible to offer to the existing owners redesign package @20-30k usd. Car needs new traction motors, better battery, higher capacity charger, less weight and most likely different ICE. Right now it under performs - I do not believe this is a 400 hp car and small upgrades will not work. As far as future classic - from what I gather from all the car shows, even 30 years from now the car needs to run and be able to drive on the road. Any guess whether Karma will step up to that plate 30 years from now?
 

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We (in the Phoenix area) recently got contacted by a Fisker Rep (Cindy Bragger) asking for contact vehicle info for any owners. She said:

As we recently acquired Fisker Automotive, not all of the information was captured in our systems. We want to ensure that we have our records updated with the correct owner information for future communications. In addition, we utilize the owner information to determine the amount of funds available to each owner within the Customer Support Program (ending January 31st, 2016).

For information about the program details or for future service/parts needs, please contact Elite Motors OC:


Alex Pop
27812 Aliso Creek Rd Ste E110
Aliso Viejo, CA 92656
[email protected]
714-697-0557


Please note that you can expect updates within the next few months. We are working avidly to build up the new company and will be sure to convey information via our developing website as we make progress.

Let me know if you have any additional questions or if we can be of any assistance in the future.
 

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Carved - Karma bites back
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79 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
To resume:
1) there is no certainty on the further evolution of the car. We can expect there will be no evolution. And if there is current owners will need to pay a considerable amount to upgrade their car. Are current owners open for this?
It all depends on the pricing of the major update. It this update really improves the cars quality and ensures further support & service by FA (Wanxiang) some owners, i think, are willing to do this investment. I am one of those owners.

2) Classic car:
I agree with you. The car will probably not work anymore in 30 years. But at that point technology has also evolved and probably will make it possible to create a fully working car again.

3) the car at this point remains a liability/a risk. Driving it is a joy I still believe. But the uncertainty everything you drive with it ... is a pain in the ass....

Steve
 

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Early Adopter
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To resume:
1) there is no certainty on the further evolution of the car. We can expect there will be no evolution. And if there is current owners will need to pay a considerable amount to upgrade their car. Are current owners open for this?
It all depends on the pricing of the major update. It this update really improves the cars quality and ensures further support & service by FA (Wanxiang) some owners, i think, are willing to do this investment. I am one of those owners.

2) Classic car:
I agree with you. The car will probably not work anymore in 30 years. But at that point technology has also evolved and probably will make it possible to create a fully working car again.

3) the car at this point remains a liability/a risk. Driving it is a joy I still believe. But the uncertainty everything you drive with it ... is a pain in the ass....

Steve
classic car - try driving a triumph stag or a Lamborghini Miura or any old jag - the price for art lovers. You say pain in the ass, others may say the joys of life lol
 

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classic car - try driving a triumph stag or a Lamborghini Miura or any old jag - the price for art lovers. You say pain in the ass, others may say the joys of life lol
It is fairly easy to service those cars you are mentioning - combustion engine with carburettors, no electronic systems shutting down or interfacing with one another, ignition timing done by distributor, no ecu. If a classic car can be driven on its own power (even just from the tent to the auction room), its price is much higher. I wonder if today's high price sports cars will ever collect any premium in the future. Any thoughts on future classics (beside Fisker)?
 

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Deep Ocean in ATL
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436 Posts
It would seem that New Fisker is working on their business model, future products and future branding. They most likely don't have the resources to keep us informed as they struggle with these challenges. I doubt if they will continue the Fisker Brand. So they may start production of the Karma at some point in time. If they significantly change it, re-certification will be required in all the countries where Karma was sold. So they can fix the reported 120 things that need to be addressed. Fortunately Harley Guy, Philly Fisker and their respective dealerships are hanging in there and working on solutions for the current 2000 or so owners.

Will it every be economically feasible for the Current Karma to be upgraded... most likely not. Keep in mind, you may not have your 2012 Toyota or BMW upgraded to new 2016 technology either. The economics will never close. Even with the success of Tesla, owners have come to realize that those early adopters or the 2012 Model S can't upgrade to the new Dual 671 HP chassis or have all the new anti-collision and auto-pilot upgrades that are available in the 2014/15 models. So it becomes a time to replace. I would imagine that the New Fisker is not altruistic by having a customer appreciation program in addition to the Bankruptcy funds set aside for some original owners. Although they may someday produce something close the Karma, they would like to have an owner base with some loyalty. I just had my RDM installed under the CAP. The New Fisker paid the 20 hours of labor to install. They have my loyalty as does the dealers who have stood by the owners.

At this time, I don't see my Karma as an investment--nor have I every thought of any car as such. It is a joy to drive and still demands attention when I drive. At nearly 30K miles, I look at every mile, every day and every year as natural depreciation in its value. Three years ago it was a major purchase, but now it is "sunk" cost. I plan to enjoy it, for as long as I can. If it makes 5 years, it will have outlast my prior Ford vehicles which were in the repair shop an average of 10 times a year.

Enjoy the Karma. Wish the best to The New Fisker or what every their name becomes. We will someday see what they produce.
 

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Well Said AlJohn! Glad to hear the RDM repair is done and you're back on the road. Maybe I'll see you at an upcoming Caffeine and Octane, or Caffeine and Exotics.

Brent
 

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Deep Ocean in ATL
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Thanks LoanP..... I guess it was last weekend. I may get there on March 1. Let me know if others are showing up.
 
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