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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
3 hours ago i posted this as a half joke, now it has come true.

Just had my car delivered from Fla. by Plycon. When we offloaded car would not go into gear, and the low battery warning lite came on.

I have been in touch with Hybrid Solutions for the last month, just kicking around some ideas, so luckily, I had names, emails and phone numbers.

Called them and in 5 minutes they called me back and tried to run through a few resets---no luck, so for the time being car is in a coma.

First of all Kudos to Hybrid Solutions--these guys could not have been more responsive. Problem is I am on east end of Long Island which is about as far away from an active dealer as Kabul. We tossed around a couple of ideas about getting some diagnostic tools to me regular car repair shop who is first line. Complicated to say the least.

I am off on a one week vacation, so I am not going to try and worry about this for the next ten days, but believe me, this is the crux of the problem for each and every one of us. Make no mistake about it.

Instead of getting a parts car, maybe just buy flatbets, would be interesting.

I will keep everybody updated on this one.
 

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Sorry to hear that Mikey. And just on your vacation day too! My Karma is no longer perfect either has a gear play rattle regenerating down hills at speed. My wife says it sounds like the bionic man going down hills. Fisker Silicon Valley said this was not harmful but could only be fixed with a future firmware update ??? OR some locktite between motors and differential, applied after a 13-hour $4000 disassembly!
 

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3 hours ago i posted this as a half joke, now it has come true.

Just had my car delivered from Fla. by Plycon. When we offloaded car would not go into gear, and the low battery warning lite came on.

I have been in touch with Hybrid Solutions for the last month, just kicking around some ideas, so luckily, I had names, emails and phone numbers.

Called them and in 5 minutes they called me back and tried to run through a few resets---no luck, so for the time being car is in a coma.

First of all Kudos to Hybrid Solutions--these guys could not have been more responsive. Problem is I am on east end of Long Island which is about as far away from an active dealer as Kabul. We tossed around a couple of ideas about getting some diagnostic tools to me regular car repair shop who is first line. Complicated to say the least.

I am off on a one week vacation, so I am not going to try and worry about this for the next ten days, but believe me, this is the crux of the problem for each and every one of us. Make no mistake about it.

Instead of getting a parts car, maybe just buy flatbets, would be interesting.

I will keep everybody updated on this one.
Did they advise you to keep the car plugged in while you are gone? having a dead HV battery can create all sorts of problems, so it would probably help to come back to a fully charged car. Just a suggestion.
 

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Sorry to hear that Mikey. And just on your vacation day too! My Karma is no longer perfect either has a gear play rattle regenerating down hills at speed. My wife says it sounds like the bionic man going down hills. Fisker Silicon Valley said this was not harmful but could only be fixed with a future firmware update ??? OR some locktite between motors and differential, applied after a 13-hour $4000 disassembly!
Fortunately, the audio system is loud enough to cover these kinds of noises.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
they did not advise that, but my battery is charged at about 95 % so I think it will be ok until I get back. Couldn't get car in garage, too tight a turn and too heavy. So I left it outside under my 54 GMC tarp. Think battery will last. What do you think?
 

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they did not advise that, but my battery is charged at about 95 % so I think it will be ok until I get back. Couldn't get car in garage, too tight a turn and too heavy. So I left it outside under my 54 GMC tarp. Think battery will last. What do you think?
If the battery is almost fully charged, it's probably safe to leave it disconnected. Unlike a certain other brand of EV, the Karma has very little parasitic current and will stay charged for weeks.

Hope you have a good vacation.
 

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Miley question for you does the 12 volt system work like the radio the windows . I think you mentioned the battery light is on the HV failure or the 12 volt system if your 12 volt battery is low or dead the HV system won't work . HSS is a great start they know the car for sure . If the 12 volt system is low you need to hook up,a trickle charger to the 12 volt system bring back the 12 volt system to a fully charged level then see what happens .
 

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Mikey - my experience is the Karmas battery can go for months without losing much charge. I regularly leave it unplugged for 3-6 weeks at a time and see less than a mile loss of EV range when I come back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Miley question for you does the 12 volt system work like the radio the windows . I think you mentioned the battery light is on the HV failure or the 12 volt system if your 12 volt battery is low or dead the HV system won't work . HSS is a great start they know the car for sure . If the 12 volt system is low you need to hook up,a trickle charger to the 12 volt system bring back the 12 volt system to a fully charged level then see what happens .
The windows and radio worked fine. Does the icon differentiate btwn the 12v battery and the main battery. Think the situation is more ominous. Glad that HSS is in communication with me. Not going to worry too much about this until I get back. Nothing I can do about it--right? Karma
 

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The windows and radio worked fine. Does the icon differentiate btwn the 12v battery and the main battery. Think the situation is more ominous. Glad that HSS is in communication with me. Not going to worry too much about this until I get back. Nothing I can do about it--right? Karma
There's different icons for the 12v and hv battery. Mind going over what they've had you do so far?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
There's different icons for the 12v and hv battery. Mind going over what they've had you do so far?
This icon is on lower left of display next to seat belt icon. Didn't do much car was in street. Had me shut car down and go to sleep so that background lighting on "P" symbol went off. Then had me try to put car in drive immediately after start up. Did not work.

Doesn't logic say that this has to do with the 12v system and not the big battery, otherwise couldn't I start it in "sport mode".

This is a dark picture for me, since I am now located in such a remote area (east end of LI)
 

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This icon is on lower left of display next to seat belt icon. Didn't do much car was in street. Had me shut car down and go to sleep so that background lighting on "P" symbol went off. Then had me try to put car in drive immediately after start up. Did not work.

Doesn't logic say that this has to do with the 12v system and not the big battery, otherwise couldn't I start it in "sport mode".

This is a dark picture for me, since I am now located in such a remote area (east end of LI)
$3,995 will buy a lot of phone sex but it won't fix your car. Time to give Lormax or Harleyguy a call and drain your frequent flier miles. I hope you get her sorted out soon...best of luck.

:cool:
 

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Ok, so they instructed you on a basic soft reset, or 'let it go to sleep'. Did they also have you try doing a hard reset by disconnecting the 12v connector?

Doesn't logic say that this has to do with the 12v system and not the big battery, otherwise couldn't I start it in "sport mode".
If the car was turning on and allowing it to shift to neutral, then no, your 12v system is probably fine. Yes, there's a fine line in voltage for a 12v battery that will allow the car to come on but the HV contactors and such won't close, but it's a pretty small window. If you have a voltmeter, I can instruct you on how to check this rather quickly and rule out the 12v once and for all.

Is the "Ready" light blinking on the dash after it's started and finished 'booting up'?

Shoot me a PM and I can get you my contact info. I don't mind doing a bit of basic troubleshooting over the phone, and I'm available on weekends as well ;)
 

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Mikey43 Dead Karma

I'm a Tax Advisor and I've been preparing tax returns for almost 25 years. Prior to that I was an auto technician for about 17 years. I graduated from General Motors Training center and landed my first job with the GM Technical Center in Warren MI. I had the opportunity to work with GM engineers, designers and very experience technicians. I only worked there less than two years because my goal was to learn as much as I could and to open up my on service center which I did.

I understood the inter workings of the entire automobile systems (engines, transmission, differentials, fuel and electrical systems, etc) and was an extremely good and efficient trouble shooter. Like any good auto technician I was able to trouble shoot most problems based on description, the sound or smell that came from the vehicle. Much of this was done without any testing equipment. I was able to close my eyes and listen to a vehicle engine start up and was able to identify the manufacture. If it was Ford, Chrysler, GM or other foreign vehicle. This is not an exaggeration. Many technicians in this forum know what I'm talking about. The starter from each auto manufacture has its on distinct sound and characteristics and many technicians can easily identify this sound.

There are four primary things that must happen for an internal combustion engine (ICE) to start: it much have fuel, fire (ignition), compression and timing. I understand these principles well. A technician that understand these four principles can quickly and easily diagnosis an engine that won't start.

Of course, engines and system controls have become a bit more complicated since I worked on cars more than 25 years ago. But I still remember those basic concepts and regardless of how complicated the systems have become these four concepts will always apply as long as there is an internal combustion engine.

I said all of this to get to this one point. I would like to learn more about the Karma systems and how it works. I would like a basic understanding of what happens when I get in my Fisker Karma and I push the start button what happens. What actions that must take place for the Karma to wake up and prepare itself? How does the 12v battery interact with HV battery? If the 12v battery is discharged the Karma won't start is this because the 12v battery must initiate things first before the HV battery can take over? I’m not asking for a training course even though that’s what I might need to understand this.

It seems that Hybrid Solutions only provided basic troubleshooting solutions to Mikey43 that any of us that’s been around this forum are all ready familiar with such as how to reset the Karma. Most of us know that this restores the Karma back to its intended function. Before I call you guys for help I would have at least done a reset.

In the case of Mikey43, what makes it so difficult for a Fisker engineer who design and developed the system to troubleshoot a dead Karma? Is the Karma that complicated? I been away from automotive repair for 25 years but I can still give you a basic understanding of how most systems in a traditional automobile work.

Samuel
 

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Scurry1074,

On a conventional vehicle with an ICE, regarding the basic principles of combustion you are correct, nothing changes there with the Karma (as far as the engine running). And you're right about being able to identify the make of the vehicle just listening to the starter cranking.

I think the biggest difference you need to understand the Karma is not a conventional vehicle by any stretch of the imagination. It does not have a starter motor and it doesn't even need the engine to be running to move the vehicle.

I said all of this to get to this one point. I would like to learn more about the Karma systems and how it works. I would like a basic understanding of what happens when I get in my Fisker Karma and I push the start button what happens.
The Karma is pretty complex monster but I'll try to give a basic overview on what happens when you hit the start button. Please take into consideration that you are driving an unfinished car, and it has many exceptions or "quirks."

This is a very brief overview and has many more layers to it.

1. User pushes Start button while pressing brake pedal to enter "Ready" mode (Run for conventional vehicles)
2. VCM detects power mode request and wakes up all modules. Request for HV initialization is sent to HCU.
3. HCU detects request and if all safety and functional criteria are met, HCU sends command to BECM to close HV contactors.
4. If all safety and functional criteria are met, BECM closes HV battery contactors. Vehicle is now in"Ready" mode but with propulsion disabled.
5. User selects "Drive" while pressing brake pedal.
6. HCU detects user input and if all safety and functional criteria have been met, HCU enables forward propulsion.

How does the 12v battery interact with HV battery? If the 12v battery is discharged the Karma won't start is this because the 12v battery must initiate things first before the HV battery can take over? I’m not asking for a training course even though that’s what I might need to understand this.
All of the electronics in the vehicle are controlled by the 12 volt battery (as it is in a conventional vehicle). If the 12 volt battery is drained nothing will work. If the 12 volt battery is LOW, some things might work, others will not. For example you may be able to open the door to the car but there may not be enough voltage at the BECM to close contactors to activate the HV system.

The 12 volt battery is charged by the HV battery via the APM (accessory power module). This basically replaces the alternator on a conventional car. If you are in Ready mode (Ready light SOLID not flashing), contactors are closed and the HV battery is charging the via the 12 volt battery via the APM. In ACC mode, HV contactors are not closed and the APM is not charging the battery.

It seems that Hybrid Solutions only provided basic troubleshooting solutions to Mikey43 that any of us that’s been around this forum are all ready familiar with such as how to reset the Karma. Most of us know that this restores the Karma back to its intended function. Before I call you guys for help I would have at least done a reset.
I don't know what was and what was not discussed in that conversation and I do not know what Mikey43's level of automotive knowledge is, but I will say this: This is not an easy vehicle to work, especially if you are not familiar with it. This car has probably an infinite amount of things that can go wrong with it. For example the BECM has over 3000 types of faults alone, all with similar symptoms and that is only one module. My point is there is only so much one can do over the phone without any diagnostic tools which on this car, is absolutely critical.

As for 12 volt resets, could it have worked? Sure, its definitely possible that a 12 volt reset could have got the car going, but at what cost? Any time you disconnect that 12 volt connector, you have just lost the ability to find out why the car would not move, so now you have a ticking time bomb (not literally). Whatever caused the problem will come back and maybe this time it won't be in a convenient location like a driveway.

On top of losing vital information, that connector is not made to be disconnected numerous times as the terminals can become loose and make poor contact with each other over time, causing intermittent grounding issues. I'm sure you're familiar with what kind of havoc loose grounds can cause on an electrical system.

Hopefully this clears up some things & it was not meant to be condescending towards anyone. Feel free to ask any follow up questions and I'll do my best to answer them.
 

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I spent an hour trying to come up with an answer and how to explain how complex these cars are . Thanks for bailing me out lol . I would also like to this I call this car a earn as you learn car . People really have no clue the amount of time I spend trying to fix one problem and these cars come into the shop with a two page list . I've spent from any were from a few minutes to over 15 hours trying duplicate a fault . And I'm not talking about removing and replacing a part this is time spent with just faults .

Another thing owners aren't aware of is the training that was provided by Fisker sure we went too school for a week but no school in the world can prepare you for what we encounter in the real world .

And now with no technical support from Fisker I feel like a one legged clown in a kicking contest .

We have a very limited amount of technical information with every problem we had to contact tech support open a case supply fault codes screen shots of live data and wait on a response by e mail and then go to the next step .

I saw were Mikey was able to call HSS for help and they returned his call within 5 minutes we didn't have that now or before . Try to explain a major failure in a e mail and hope the guy on the other side of the e mail understands what your trying to explain .

Phone support is the only way a owner will be able to come close to trouble shooting a problem .
 
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