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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Sorry guys, I decided to revisit these forums after I got chased out by all the deluded Fisker lovers out there who didn't want to see that I was trying to raise important issues about the Fisker hoping to get them to fix things and change expectations.

I called it 5 months ago that Fisker would go bankrupt and boy were a lot of people upset and I asked that the customer satisfaction poll be put up on the site. Well it looks like I'm right and I truly hope that they restructure rather than go bankrupt but in a way, it could mean a higher resale value if you keep your car for a few years.

I think a lot of people who are financially distressed will dump their cars for cheap but once that initial sell off is done, in a few years I can see the Fisker being a collector car since so few were made so make sure you store your car nicely!

I also heard that the Fisker used the old Saturn engines as they bought a bunch of them off of GM when they closed the line so it's not like people won't know how to fix them. I was told that my dealership will continue to have people available to work on them but if the warranty isn't valid, they'll just charge their hourly rate. Definitely not the end of the world...

I also think that batteries are replaceable and in a few years we could be in a situation where we could buy a new battery and someone will figure a way to swap them into the Fisker. In fact, I predict the batteries will not only have more range but will be lighter and smaller and they can easily be retrofitted into the Karma.

Anyways, I won't bother coming back to the site as I will likely hear a lot more bashing about how I'm an idiot and don't know what I am talking about. I stand by my original posts about mismanaging expectations and that the range issues are real.

Oh, by the way, after a lot of experimentation, I found the source of the energy leak. I was getting 50% battery capacity in the winter and I isolated it to the heater. The AC and fan had nothing to do with it, nor the seat warmers. The heater was taking 7kw!!! That's huge... if I drove in the winter with a blanket over my legs, I was able to get 70% battery capacity and in the warmer weather i was getting up to 80%. I know have a graph of variables including temp, weight, heater, seat warmer, fan, ac etc. as individual variables and how they affect range.

Anyways, best of luck to all of you... perhaps we'll see each other at a collector's event with our Fiskers lined up beside the 1967 Mustangs :)
 

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EX:Shadow/Canyon #324
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It is always uplifting to read "I told you so" messages. Reaffirms my belief in humanity. ;)
 

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It is always uplifting to read "I told you so" messages. Reaffirms my belief in humanity. ;)
Heh... Says the guy who's now Monday morning quarterbacking after months of getting upset at folks for making rational observations. :angel:
 

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EX:Shadow/Canyon #324
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Heh... Says the guy who's now Monday morning quarterbacking after months of getting upset at folks for making rational observations. :angel:
Well Doug, if you owned a Karma instead of sitting on the sidelines, maybe your posts would be less negative, excuse me, rational. Rather than Monday morning quarterbacking I made an effort to try to help the company over the past year. Ask Henrik, Ray Lane or Roger Ormisher if you don't believe me.
 

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I called it 5 months ago that Fisker would go bankrupt and boy were a lot of people upset and I asked that the customer satisfaction poll be put up on the site. Well it looks like I'm right and I truly hope that they restructure rather than go bankrupt but in a way, it could mean a higher resale value if you keep your car for a few years.
Even the blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while, so I am not particularly impressed.

Edited to add:

And 75% of startups fail, so the doom prediction is the easy and lazy one to make.

And since we are all rational here, let me point out that Fisker has retained 50 employees and has not filed for BK yet, so rationally speaking, it is still too early to crow.
 

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Sorry guys, I decided to revisit these forums after I got chased out by all the deluded Fisker lovers out there who didn't want to see that I was trying to raise important issues about the Fisker hoping to get them to fix things and change expectations.

I called it 5 months ago that Fisker would go bankrupt and boy were a lot of people upset and I asked that the customer satisfaction poll be put up on the site. Well it looks like I'm right and I truly hope that they restructure rather than go bankrupt but in a way, it could mean a higher resale value if you keep your car for a few years.

I think a lot of people who are financially distressed will dump their cars for cheap but once that initial sell off is done, in a few years I can see the Fisker being a collector car since so few were made so make sure you store your car nicely!

I also heard that the Fisker used the old Saturn engines as they bought a bunch of them off of GM when they closed the line so it's not like people won't know how to fix them. I was told that my dealership will continue to have people available to work on them but if the warranty isn't valid, they'll just charge their hourly rate. Definitely not the end of the world...

I also think that batteries are replaceable and in a few years we could be in a situation where we could buy a new battery and someone will figure a way to swap them into the Fisker. In fact, I predict the batteries will not only have more range but will be lighter and smaller and they can easily be retrofitted into the Karma.

Anyways, I won't bother coming back to the site as I will likely hear a lot more bashing about how I'm an idiot and don't know what I am talking about. I stand by my original posts about mismanaging expectations and that the range issues are real.

Oh, by the way, after a lot of experimentation, I found the source of the energy leak. I was getting 50% battery capacity in the winter and I isolated it to the heater. The AC and fan had nothing to do with it, nor the seat warmers. The heater was taking 7kw!!! That's huge... if I drove in the winter with a blanket over my legs, I was able to get 70% battery capacity and in the warmer weather i was getting up to 80%. I know have a graph of variables including temp, weight, heater, seat warmer, fan, ac etc. as individual variables and how they affect range.

Anyways, best of luck to all of you... perhaps we'll see each other at a collector's event with our Fiskers lined up beside the 1967 Mustangs :)
Do you still have your Karma?
 

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Sorry guys, I decided to revisit these forums after I got chased out by all the deluded Fisker lovers out there who didn't want to see that I was trying to raise important issues about the Fisker hoping to get them to fix things and change expectations.
As the moderator, I need to correct your revisionist history here. The principal objection to your thread, and the only thing that was changed at your request, was the misleading title of your thread because a casual observer could read it as a statement that Fisker had in fact filed for BK, as opposed to your opinion and prediction that it would at some point in the future. The fact is that even now, Fisker has yet to file for BK, and while that may seem inevitable to us, it has not yet happened and the title of this thread is still misleading.

Since truth is the most basic foundation of reason, I would suggest it is needed in a rational discussion.
 

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Heh... Says the guy who's now Monday morning quarterbacking after months of getting upset at folks for making rational observations. :angel:

To be fair your observations are not balanced or for that matter rational; as you have a financial interest in Tesla Motors (you run a Tesla Motors forum that generates revenue and is dependent on Tesla Motors). Plus you get perks from Tesla like test driving the vehicle even though you are not a reservation holder. Pot calling the kettle black?
 

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Wow he must work in Vegas with Penn &Teller since his able to foresee the future .Maybe he can pick the Powerball numbers and buy Fisker .
 

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To be fair your observations are not balanced or for that matter rational;
This from the guy that (just off the top of my head) provided such reality defying gems as:
  • Herick is still with Fisker Automotive.
  • The Karma does not have a demand problem.
  • A123 didn't file for bankruptcy yet.
  • Destino isn't made from existing Karmas.
  • Karma production didn't stop in July.
  • The Karmas destroyed in Superstorm Sandy weren't being stored at the port.

as you have a financial interest in Tesla Motors
  1. A financial interest in Tesla Motors shouldn't mean you want Fisker to fail. Fisker failing hurts the whole EV movement.
  2. As Model S owners, you and Dennis have a MUCH higher financial interest in Tesla than I do.
  3. I currently do not nor have I ever owned any Tesla stock.
(you run a Tesla Motors forum that generates revenue and is dependent on Tesla Motors).
Running TMC is more of a public service than anything else. We've had plenty of offers from others that could better capitalize on it (including AutoGuide, the company FiskerBuzz was sold to), but we are more interested in maintaining the community. Primarily, I'm interested in the promotion of EVs in general and Tesla was the first exciting EV company to emerge around that time. If Fisker had started before Tesla, TMC might have been a Fisker forum. TMC is independent and separate from Tesla Motors.

Plus you get perks from Tesla like test driving the vehicle even though you are not a reservation holder.
  • The only real perk I got directly from Tesla was they gave me a Tesla baseball cap to replace a hat that I lost at a Tesla party back in 2008. I wish I still had my original hat.
  • I was invited to the 2009 Model S launch in LA as a member of the media (representing the now defunct EVcast), though I am not what I'd consider a journalist (I study physics). I drove down and back on my own dime and stayed with a former Stanford roommate.
  • Most Tesla parties and ride events I attended was as a guest of Tesla owners who are also TMC members. Most Tesla drives I've done were in cars belonging to TMC members.
  • I have also driven almost every other current production EV. (Though this does not yet include the Karma, if someone wants to help me rectify that. ;) )

Pot calling the kettle black?
This is an example of the pot calling the kettle black:
your observations are not balanced or for that matter rational;
 

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Since truth is the most basic foundation of reason, I would suggest it is needed in a rational discussion.
Definitely agree with this. Honestly, I don't remember whatever Hockeydad posted, so I can't speak to his specifics. However, it's pretty sad that some on this forum respond to reasonable opinions that they don't like with personal attacks on one's credibility and motives, instead of simply discussing the merits of an argument using rational suppositions and the facts that are available.

We have Tesla fanboys upset at someone else's opinion on TMC fairly often. But rarely do they make it personal, and if they do, appropriate action is taken.
 

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We have Tesla fanboys upset at someone else's opinion on TMC fairly often. *But rarely do they make it personal, and if they do, appropriate action is taken.
Thanks for reminding me. I had forgotten how Tesla owners are as perfect as their cars! ;)
 

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This from the guy that (just off the top of my head) provided such reality defying gems as:
  • Herick is still with Fisker Automotive.
  • The Karma does not have a demand problem.
  • A123 didn't file for bankruptcy yet.
  • Destino isn't made from existing Karmas.
  • Karma production didn't stop in July.
  • The Karmas destroyed in Superstorm Sandy weren't being stored at the port.


  1. A financial interest in Tesla Motors shouldn't mean you want Fisker to fail. Fisker failing hurts the whole EV movement.
  2. As Model S owners, you and Dennis have a MUCH higher financial interest in Tesla than I do.
  3. I currently do not nor have I ever owned any Tesla stock.

Running TMC is more of a public service than anything else. We've had plenty of offers from others that could better capitalize on it (including AutoGuide, the company FiskerBuzz was sold to), but we are more interested in maintaining the community. Primarily, I'm interested in the promotion of EVs in general and Tesla was the first exciting EV company to emerge around that time. If Fisker had started before Tesla, TMC might have been a Fisker forum. TMC is independent and separate from Tesla Motors.


  • The only real perk I got directly from Tesla was they gave me a Tesla baseball cap to replace a hat that I lost at a Tesla party back in 2008. I wish I still had my original hat.
  • I was invited to the 2009 Model S launch in LA as a member of the media (representing the now defunct EVcast), though I am not what I'd consider a journalist (I study physics). I drove down and back on my own dime and stayed with a former Stanford roommate.
  • Most Tesla parties and ride events I attended was as a guest of Tesla owners who are also TMC members. Most Tesla drives I've done were in cars belonging to TMC members.
  • I have also driven almost every other current production EV. (Though this does not yet include the Karma, if someone wants to help me rectify that. ;) )


This is an example of the pot calling the kettle black:
Go out to wrench on my cars for a bit and I come back to this :D

The first 6 bullet points are all BS post some quotes links the whole 9. Half of your "top of the head" musings are not even based in reality. Once you post definitive proof we can discuss that. Slander no bueno

You have never driven a Karma and you make money off Tesla being successful (ads, whatever other stuff you sell on your site). You really stand to gain if Fisker fails (as most of the posts on your site berate Fisker and the people who own these cars). Once you drive the car then maybe you can talk all that junk but at this point you haven't even done that; yet you are posting here like you are some sort of expert? That is pretty ridiculous.

So you are selling ads, having people moderate for free, and getting perks that no one else but owners get, as a public service? Delusional much? I guess all forums are created for
"public service" then.
 

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Heh... yeah every brand has their fanboys. It's fine to be enthusiastic. But it's just plain silly when they mistake opinion for fact or deny reality by refuting easily checkable facts. :)
Please don't mistake what was sarcasm for enthusiasm....
 

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@Smoothoperator and @Doug:

You guys really need to get a room. Speaking for myself, the dick measuring contest is getting tiresome. Let me remind you what has happened in the real world:

1) 160+ families just lost their primary income and health insurance;
2) $1.2B+ of private and public investment is about to be made worthless;
3) Fisker is going to be yet another cudgel to be used to beat down anyone who suggest we should consider getting off the Hydrocarbon teat;
4) 2000 Car owners around the world are about to be cast adrift without any hope of factory support; and
4) The first of what may be a series of lawsuits has already been filed.

And to abuse a historical metaphor, you two are yelling at each other about which one has the best fiddle while Rome is burning to the ground.

Speaking just for myself, and only as a member of this forum, I would be happy to declare both of you as co-oracles of Delphi if you would just stop with all this useless back and forth about who made what predictions and why. I don't care, and I would guess very few others do either. There is plenty of real and important things to discuss in the wake of what has happened here.

Edited to Add:

Just in case it was not clear, I am saying all of this as a forum member and not as a moderator. I have no intention of pulling or changing any of the posts in any way. I am just tired of the useless bickering.
 

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@Smoothoperator and @Doug:

You guys really need to get a room. Speaking for myself, the dick measuring contest is getting tiresome. Let me remind you what has happened in the real world:

1) 160+ families just lost their primary income and health insurance;
2) $1.2B+ of private and public investment is about to be made worthless;
3) Fisker is going to be yet another cudgel to be used to beat down anyone who suggest we should consider getting off the Hydrocarbon teat;
4) 2000 Car owners around the world are about to be cast adrift without any hope of factory support; and
4) The first of what may be a series of lawsuits has already been filed.

And to abuse a historical metaphor, you two are yelling at each other about which one has the best fiddle while Rome is burning to the ground.

Speaking just for myself, and only as a member of this forum, I would be happy to declare both of you as co-oracles of Delphi if you would just stop with all this useless back and forth about who made what predictions and why. I don't care, and I would guess very few others do either. There is plenty of real and important things to discuss in the wake of what has happened here.

Edited to Add:

Just in case it was not clear, I am saying all of this as a forum member and not as a moderator. I have no intention of pulling or changing any of the posts in any way. I am just tired of the useless bickering.
The employment situation and impact on FA employees is much worse than that; at the peak Fisker had close to 800 employees now there are only 50 useless employees left (upper management). Fisker probably has more Karma's in their test warehouse than employees at this point. I am just sick of the unbalanced bs. Some members have specific interests and relationships that they are protecting, I think it is important to note that when having any open and honest discussion.

I also think you are being a bit over dramatic. No matter what happens we will have support for these cars be it (Fisker directly, dealerships, techs or owners etc). For many of us this is not our first time to the rodeo. Relax and lets see what happens.
 

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Please don't mistake what was sarcasm for enthusiasm....
I think you are the one mistaken. He wasn't saying Tesla owners were perfect (as you implied). Doug was saying (and I agree) that tesla has irrational fanboys as well. He was basically saying that its fine for them to be enthusiastic (nice way of saying fanboy) so long as they remain rational and not throw out personal attacks.
 

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@Smoothoperator and @Doug:

You guys really need to get a room. Speaking for myself, the dick measuring contest is getting tiresome. Let me remind you what has happened in the real world:

1) 160+ families just lost their primary income and health insurance;
2) $1.2B+ of private and public investment is about to be made worthless;
3) Fisker is going to be yet another cudgel to be used to beat down anyone who suggest we should consider getting off the Hydrocarbon teat;
4) 2000 Car owners around the world are about to be cast adrift without any hope of factory support; and
4) The first of what may be a series of lawsuits has already been filed.

And to abuse a historical metaphor, you two are yelling at each other about which one has the best fiddle while Rome is burning to the ground.

Speaking just for myself, and only as a member of this forum, I would be happy to declare both of you as co-oracles of Delphi if you would just stop with all this useless back and forth about who made what predictions and why. I don't care, and I would guess very few others do either. There is plenty of real and important things to discuss in the wake of what has happened here.

Edited to Add:

Just in case it was not clear, I am saying all of this as a forum member and not as a moderator. I have no intention of pulling or changing any of the posts in any way. I am just tired of the useless bickering.
Rarely have I seen on the interwebs such an intelligent and, at the same time, entertaining post. Thank you for combining "dick measuring contest", "Hydrocarbon teat", "best fiddle while Rome is burning to the ground" and "co-oracles of Delphi" in the same post. Bravo!
 
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