Now we know where Fisker got their original 50 Mile Electric/250 Mile Extended Range estimates they have used since day 1.
-- Fab.
-- Fab.
Fisker Achieves 112 MPG, 51 g/km in TUV testing
http://media.fiskerautomotive.com/global/en-us/Media/PressRelease.aspx?mediaid=579&title=fisker-karma-achieves-112-mpg-51-gkm-co2-in-independent-tests
The Fisker Karma Electric Vehicle with extended range achieves 112 mpg (2.1 l/100km) combined fuel economy and emits just 51 g/km CO2, according to independent testing by the Technischer Üeberwachungs Verein (TÜV), Europe’s recognized automotive certification agency. TÜV tests also validated the Karma’s all-electric range at 51.6 miles (83 km).
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Aaargh, I needed 49 grams to qualify for 0% tax on private use of my Karma (which is my company car). Now it will be 14%, which means paying 8000 euro in tax per year, every year again! So I won't be driving it privately then...
I didn't expect to be driving it privately anyway, as Fisker has always claimed an emission of 83 grams. I wasn't counting on such a good score. But a shame it didn't come in another 2 grams lower.
I didn't expect to be driving it privately anyway, as Fisker has always claimed an emission of 83 grams. I wasn't counting on such a good score. But a shame it didn't come in another 2 grams lower.
Holy Cow that's strict :-/ We are so spoiled in the US. If we had to pay anything near that much tax based on CO2 emissions, the SUV would pretty much disappear overnight from American roads (which would not be a bad thing necessarily).
You can still get the tax break if the Fisker is your company car as long as the emissions are under 100 G/Km? That seems an odd loophole, but whatever works, right?
-- Fab.
You can still get the tax break if the Fisker is your company car as long as the emissions are under 100 G/Km? That seems an odd loophole, but whatever works, right?
-- Fab.
Businesses require larger vehicles to get the job done. The thinking in Europe is the private individuals don't "need" such wasteful vehicles, so if they want one, they'll need to pay through the nose for the privilege.
Dutch, I suggest you do some business on all your trips. If you need to go to the post office, leave work and go the post office in the town you want to have dinner in. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to police a rule like what you're dealing with. I mix business with pleasure all the time. I will run personal and business errands on the same trip.
BTW, my father in law and his wife live in Amsterdam. We live in Dallas.
Cheers,
Sigurd
BTW, my father in law and his wife live in Amsterdam. We live in Dallas.
Cheers,
Sigurd
Thanks for the tips. It's true, sometimes I could combine private with business, and then it could qualify as a business ride. But those occasions are rare. And I need to keep an exact log of every kilometer I drive. Moreover, the tax service takes pictures of licence plates along the roads, and if your car is spotted somewhere and it does not correspond with your log, you will have to pay the tax plus a hefty fine.
But first let me explain how the system works:
- If we buy a car in The Netherlands, there first is a 19% VAT, which makes for a total price of €115.000 ($155.000) for a Karma Sport. I won't have to pay that VAT because I'm buying it through my business.
- Then there is a special CO2-tax on cars, which is somewhere between 20 and 30% depending on CO2-output. But below 110 grams (Karma) you pay nothing.
- Then there is a road tax (about 30-100 euro per month depending on the weigth of the car). But cars under 95 grams (Karma) are exempt from this tax.
- And finally there is a tax which you pay if the car is paid for by your company (the company you work for or, as in my case, the company you own). If you drive the car for more than 500 km privately per year, it is considered wage and you have to add a certain percentage of the value of the new car to your income (which means paying more income taxes). Every year again!
Again depending on C02-output the percentage can be 25, 20, 14 or 0. The last percentage is when the car has a CO2-output of 49 grams or less. The Karma misses this by 2 grams now, which means it falls in the 14%-category. With a price of 115.000 euro, this means adding 16.100 euro to your income every year, thus paying 8370 euro extra taxes every year (at 52%, the high rate I'm paying).
I can avoid that by either driving less than 500 km privately - which I planned on doing - or if Fisker can scrape another 2 grams of the score for its European Karma's. Some finetuning (software?) might do the trick and get it to 49 grams. In more countries in Europe the 50 grams is an important threshold for taxes/rebates, so that would be a wise thing to do for Fisker, as it would make them sell more cars. And I would be a very happy person.
(Yes, we pay a lot of taxes and they are very high. But we do have a comfortable life, health care for everyone, good child care, good schools, social care and good roads).
But first let me explain how the system works:
- If we buy a car in The Netherlands, there first is a 19% VAT, which makes for a total price of €115.000 ($155.000) for a Karma Sport. I won't have to pay that VAT because I'm buying it through my business.
- Then there is a special CO2-tax on cars, which is somewhere between 20 and 30% depending on CO2-output. But below 110 grams (Karma) you pay nothing.
- Then there is a road tax (about 30-100 euro per month depending on the weigth of the car). But cars under 95 grams (Karma) are exempt from this tax.
- And finally there is a tax which you pay if the car is paid for by your company (the company you work for or, as in my case, the company you own). If you drive the car for more than 500 km privately per year, it is considered wage and you have to add a certain percentage of the value of the new car to your income (which means paying more income taxes). Every year again!
Again depending on C02-output the percentage can be 25, 20, 14 or 0. The last percentage is when the car has a CO2-output of 49 grams or less. The Karma misses this by 2 grams now, which means it falls in the 14%-category. With a price of 115.000 euro, this means adding 16.100 euro to your income every year, thus paying 8370 euro extra taxes every year (at 52%, the high rate I'm paying).
I can avoid that by either driving less than 500 km privately - which I planned on doing - or if Fisker can scrape another 2 grams of the score for its European Karma's. Some finetuning (software?) might do the trick and get it to 49 grams. In more countries in Europe the 50 grams is an important threshold for taxes/rebates, so that would be a wise thing to do for Fisker, as it would make them sell more cars. And I would be a very happy person.
(Yes, we pay a lot of taxes and they are very high. But we do have a comfortable life, health care for everyone, good child care, good schools, social care and good roads).
Wouldn't this last tax category diminish every year as the car's value gets less as the car gets older? The car registration fees in California are similar in that a portion of the fee is based on the car's resale value which goes down each year. The overall amount is much much lower than what you have to pay (around 1%) but there is no exemption for clean cars.Dutch said:- And finally there is a tax which you pay if the car is paid for by your company (the company you work for or, as in my case, the company you own). If you drive the car for more than 500 km privately per year, it is considered wage and you have to add a certain percentage of the value of the new car to your income (which means paying more income taxes). Every year again!
Again depending on C02-output the percentage can be 25, 20, 14 or 0. The last percentage is when the car has a CO2-output of 49 grams or less. The Karma misses this by 2 grams now, which means it falls in the 14%-category. With a price of 115.000 euro, this means adding 16.100 euro to your income every year, thus paying 8370 euro extra taxes every year (at 52%, the high rate I'm paying).
-- Fab.
Unfortunately they don't diminish the value as the car gets older. They keep on treating it as a brand new car. Every year again. Actually, if you would buy an old car and use it as a company car, the tax calculation would be based on the original price for which it was bought years ago. It doesn't make any sense, but well, that's how the government works.
The thing that I keep wondering about is if there is no case to be made that your emission is actually much lower as you drive let's say 75% electric (in your case) so if you than average out on real usage you would be well below the threshold.Dutch said:Unfortunately they don't diminish the value as the car gets older. They keep on treating it as a brand new car. Every year again. Actually, if you would buy an old car and use it as a company car, the tax calculation would be based on the original price for which it was bought years ago. It doesn't make any sense, but well, that's how the government works.
I presume the car keeps record of gas usage and milage which give foundation for 'proving' emissions in your use case.
Maybe Prins Mauritz can make this case with the Tax authorities for you (us)
I will do 40,000 kms (25,000 miles) per year and am convinced - based on my driving over the last years - that I will do only 2000 kms (1250 miles) of those with the range-extender on, thus achieving 500 mpg. That's like 10 gr/km. And I could even 'prove' this with my log.
But unfortunately this does not get accepted by the tax service; the official result (51 gr/km) will be the only determining factor. I think there will be some people who want to make their case in court, but it would be much better if Fisker could just shave off those extra 2 grams.
But unfortunately this does not get accepted by the tax service; the official result (51 gr/km) will be the only determining factor. I think there will be some people who want to make their case in court, but it would be much better if Fisker could just shave off those extra 2 grams.
They surely will in the next generation with the new engine.
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