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Karma Enthusiast
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was just wondering what networks you guys use? I have a Chargepoint account, does anyone use eVgo? Blink seems to expensive. I was wonder what you guys do to charge when you're out and about?
 

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It only really makes sense to charge your Karma publicly, if its free. Most places charge 2.00/hr which means you will get at max ~3kw per hour. More expensive than using gas to use public stations with a fee.
 

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Karma Enthusiast
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It only really makes sense to charge your Karma publicly, if its free. Most places charge 2.00/hr which means you will get at max ~3kw per hour. More expensive than using gas to use public stations with a fee.
:thumbdown: Around here we have free, but a lot of places are .85 cents an hour. I love driving on the electric motor the gas engine doesn't compare. I love the car because it's an EV. If it just had gas I don't know if it would be the same.
 

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:thumbdown: Around here we have free, but a lot of places are .85 cents an hour. I love driving on the electric motor the gas engine doesn't compare. I love the car because it's an EV. If it just had gas I don't know if it would be the same.

Karma is always powered by the electric motors, the ICE just provides an additional energy source for the electric motors

Even at .85 that is still ~29 cents net a kWh which is expensive for grid energy. Also taking into account the Karma can only utilize 50% of what a public EVSE can produce it; you are not getting your full moneys worth. How often do you stop for long enough where you can get a significant range boost from being plugged in? I guess if you are at work or watching several movies at a theater.
 

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Karma Enthusiast
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Karma is always powered by the electric motors, the ICE just provides an additional energy source for the electric motors

Even at .85 that is still ~29 cents net a kWh which is expensive for grid energy. Also taking into account the Karma can only utilize 50% of what a public EVSE can produce it; you are not getting your full moneys worth. How often do you stop for long enough where you can get a significant range boost from being plugged in? I guess if you are at work or watching several movies at a theater.
What's the math formula you use to calculate kWh for the Karma? What is worth it to you?

I don't mind paying for what I enjoy. That's like saying why would pay to eat at a nice restaurant when you could make it at home for free. Because it tastes good and I enjoy it. Worth is what somebody values enough to pay for. I'm happy if you open free energy L2 stations around the US, but for now if I want to enjoy my Karma on full electric I pay and I enjoy not using gas.
 

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What's the math formula you use to calculate kWh for the Karma? What is worth it to you?.
90% power factor after losses, which is generous. I have a 10kw charger in my Karma, so I am not really hamstrung by the 3.3kw limit in the Karma. I usually use my whole battery pack while driving then turn on TOM ER mode and generate miles (usually at a rate of around 2 miles driven and 1 mile generated). Usually always have excess electric miles when I end up at my destination. Plus can stationary charge at a rate of 7-9kw and generate miles that way if a charger is not available. So to me, personally, charging at below 6kw is not worth the effort.

I don't mind paying for what I enjoy. That's like saying why would pay to eat at a nice restaurant when you could make it at home for free. Because it tastes good and I enjoy it. Worth is what somebody values enough to pay for. I'm happy if you open free energy L2 stations around the US, but for now if I want to enjoy my Karma on full electric I pay and I enjoy not using gas.
That is good but I thought the premise was based on the original post in that Blink was expensive. A dollar difference per hour would not seem to sway the value proposition either way if you enjoy it, like a good restaurant.

If you are looking at the value proposition, it really does not make sense to plug the Karma in publicly as it is more of a novelty than a useful tool to save gasoline (unless you park for long periods of times somewhere everyday i.e. work, home etc). For short errands its close to useless.



I was just wondering what networks you guys use? I have a Chargepoint account, does anyone use eVgo? Blink seems to expensive. I was wonder what you guys do to charge when you're out and about?
 

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I was just wondering what networks you guys use? I have a Chargepoint account, does anyone use eVgo? Blink seems to expensive. I was wonder what you guys do to charge when you're out and about?
The network does not set the charging price, the owner of the charging location does. Where I live and drive, Chargepoint is the predominant charging network and municipal chargers are generally free and the private chargers typically charge around $1.50/hour. The only Blink chargers in the area are at IKEA stores and they are free.

The Chargepoint app is a very nice tool because it shows the location and current status of all the chargers connected to the Chargepoint network, as well as the location of Blink chargers (but not their current status).

It generally does not cost very much to join the networks and I keep my membership in Chargepoint and Blink to be able to access either charger. It all depends on where you live and drive to, and which networks operate in that area.
 

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I was just wondering what networks you guys use? I have a Chargepoint account, does anyone use eVgo? Blink seems to expensive. I was wonder what you guys do to charge when you're out and about?
I carry a ChargePoint card, a Blink Card and a SemaConnect card. Although I don't publicly charge very often here in the ATL I find the ChargePoint card to be the most useful. There are the most stations, and it works with all of the stations that Georgia Power is putting up all over town. The SemaConnect card I have because the L2 charger at my workplace uses it, and it's the only place I found that takes it. Blink was my first card but my experience with Blink has been pretty poor, and they seem to be less and less of them around ATL. They also haven't been the most reliable.

Brent
 

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Karma Enthusiast
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I carry a ChargePoint card, a Blink Card and a SemaConnect card. Although I don't publicly charge very often here in the ATL I find the ChargePoint card to be the most useful. There are the most stations, and it works with all of the stations that Georgia Power is putting up all over town. The SemaConnect card I have because the L2 charger at my workplace uses it, and it's the only place I found that takes it. Blink was my first card but my experience with Blink has been pretty poor, and they seem to be less and less of them around ATL. They also haven't been the most reliable.

Brent
I agree! I don't have a Semacard, thought about it. Thought most Sema's are free or you need special access in Buckhead. Do yu need a Sema card even if it's free??? I wanted to charge for free today, BUT 2 Leafs where in the spot not charging! I was temped to leave a note :mad:

We should get together LonePalmBJ if you're in Atlanta.
 

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I agree! I don't have a Semacard, thought about it. Thought most Sema's are free or you need special access in Buckhead. Do yu need a Sema card even if it's free??? I wanted to charge for free today, BUT 2 Leafs where in the spot not charging! I was temped to leave a note :mad:
Just FYI, on the chargepoint app, you can locate chargers on Blink, Semaconnect and EVgo networks in addition to those on the Chargepoint network.

 

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Just FYI, on the chargepoint app, you can locate chargers on Blink, Semaconnect and EVgo networks in addition to those on the Chargepoint network.
This is true, but in the Atlanta area particularly you are much better off using PlugShare. They offer a free mobile app and you can also go online to www.plugshare.com. There is a very active community of crowdsourcers, validators and moderators here in Atlanta and the database is exceptionally accurate. New charging sites appear on Plugshare before they appear on the native maps of the charging networks in my experience. Users also actively check-in to chargers to report experiences, identify damaged or nonfunctioning equipment, and to share tips. You can also customize it to only show the connector types we care about (Level 2 J1772 for me). For the ATL, Plugshare is a must have.
 

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Karma Enthusiast
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
This is true, but in the Atlanta area particularly you are much better off using PlugShare. They offer a free mobile app and you can also go online to www.plugshare.com. There is a very active community of crowdsourcers, validators and moderators here in Atlanta and the database is exceptionally accurate. New charging sites appear on Plugshare before they appear on the native maps of the charging networks in my experience. Users also actively check-in to chargers to report experiences, identify damaged or nonfunctioning equipment, and to share tips. You can also customize it to only show the connector types we care about (Level 2 J1772 for me). For the ATL, Plugshare is a must have.
I agree Chargepoint doesn't have all the EV charging stations, I use both of these PLUS I use ChargeHub and Next Charge. I switch between all to find something in ATL. There are lots of gaps in the area, but I just use gas if need be. I was downtown at SunTrust tower the other day and in the parking deck it had Sema stations that used a credit card, I could not get it to work. One side was being used, but said need to pay or something like that and I just said forget it. These stations can be frustrating...non chargepoint! Chargepoint, never any issues with them!!!
 

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Karma Enthusiast
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Karma is always powered by the electric motors, the ICE just provides an additional energy source for the electric motors

Even at .85 that is still ~29 cents net a kWh which is expensive for grid energy. Also taking into account the Karma can only utilize 50% of what a public EVSE can produce it; you are not getting your full moneys worth. How often do you stop for long enough where you can get a significant range boost from being plugged in? I guess if you are at work or watching several movies at a theater.
So, I have had a chance to pay for charging off and on since May and here is my thought on it.

Some places are free, but when I pay I pay either .85 or $1 per hour. Let's use $1 per hour. By my Math of KISS:

EV Charging:
$1 per hour = ~10 miles of driving

GAS Premium:
$2.79 (AVG in GA) per gallon = ~18 miles of driving

To get the same distance in EV I would pay ~$1.85 to $2 for 18 miles...CHEAPER!

By my Math it is more economical to pay for charging then. If you live in say CA where premium gas is even more $, how can it not be cheaper to pay?
 

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@jomak - different places in the country use different charging cost models. In Arizona, we used to be on the $1/hour charging model. You were charged a $1 whether you charged for 30 seconds or 60 minutes. That was a better deal if you charged for the full hour.

A couple years ago, they moved to $0.02 per every 30 seconds (aka time-based charging). You only pay for what you use, but now it's effectively $2.40/hour. When that change was made, I stopped using the charging on my daily driver (a Volt at that time) since gas was so cheap, it didn't make sense any more.

Since I only drive the Karma occasionally I don't ever need to re-charge at public charging stations. But the move to time-based charging definitely affected the ROI for me and many other PHEV and EV drivers at my company.
 

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So, I have had a chance to pay for charging off and on since May and here is my thought on it.

Some places are free, but when I pay I pay either .85 or $1 per hour. Let's use $1 per hour. By my Math of KISS:

EV Charging:
$1 per hour = ~10 miles of driving

GAS Premium:
$2.79 (AVG in GA) per gallon = ~18 miles of driving

To get the same distance in EV I would pay ~$1.85 to $2 for 18 miles...CHEAPER!

By my Math it is more economical to pay for charging then. If you live in say CA where premium gas is even more $, how can it not be cheaper to pay?
In my area, Chargepoint is $2/hr which generates around 3kw (assuming 3-10% in losses) which essentially is over 66 cents a kWh that is very expensive energy. Even at $1 that is pretty expensive energy for half the energy you are essentially "paying" for.

1 gallon of gas can produce around 10kw of energy net to the pack.
 
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