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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I live in Atlanta and it's cold here, not freezing, but enough to turn the heat on, seat warmers, and to wish I had a heated steering wheel. What I have noticed is I get far less miles in the cold than I do in normal summer weather.

In the normal summer I would go about 9 miles and use 10-11 EV miles. When I go 9 miles now I use about almost double that. Is this normal for those who have owned the car longer and more experience driving in different climates?

I know to expect less in cold, but how much less is expected?
 

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I live in Atlanta and it's cold here, not freezing, but enough to turn the heat on, seat warmers, and to wish I had a heated steering wheel. What I have noticed is I get far less miles in the cold than I do in normal summer weather.

In the normal summer I would go about 9 miles and use 10-11 EV miles. When I go 9 miles now I use about almost double that. Is this normal for those who have owned the car longer and more experience driving in different climates?

I know to expect less in cold, but how much less is expected?
I saw the same thing when I was living in New Hampshire, and it got very very cold there. There are a lot of factors in play, including the efficiency of the battery in colder temperatures, and the additional demand for power for heating. If you are calling for cabin heat in EV mode, the heat has to be generated by an electric heater, which is a very inefficient use of stored power. If you stick with the heated seat only, it would probably save you a few electric miles. It's not really worth if for short drives like yours, but if you were driving longer distances and needed cabin heat, one option is to turn on Sport mode just long enough to heat up the engine coolant to the point where the electric heater would not have to be turned on. There was a thread on this started, IIRC, by an owner who lives in Alaska. May be worth a search ....
 

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I live in Atlanta and it's cold here, not freezing, but enough to turn the heat on, seat warmers, and to wish I had a heated steering wheel. What I have noticed is I get far less miles in the cold than I do in normal summer weather.

In the normal summer I would go about 9 miles and use 10-11 EV miles. When I go 9 miles now I use about almost double that. Is this normal for those who have owned the car longer and more experience driving in different climates?

I know to expect less in cold, but how much less is expected?

Heat can consume up to 6kw/450wh-mi about 12 miles or so

further in cold weather there is voltage drop, the a123 pack does not have active heating (just cooling).

Turn your engine on to preserve the battery and get better/quicker etc heat.
 

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Same here. 10.000 Kilometer in 6 Month start in summer. My way to my shop is 13 Kilometer which dropped exactly on my range at 15 to 25 Degrees Celsius. Now in winter around +5 to to -5 it dropped 22 kilometres for same way. Heater sucks 6000 Watt. The heated seats way lower around 500 watt..My comfort is 22 Celsius in the car. By the way the Fisker heating system works fine. If my battery is full I can't start the engine to make it warm quicker . Is that normal?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Heat can consume up to 6kw/450wh-mi about 12 miles or so

further in cold weather there is voltage drop, the a123 pack does not have active heating (just cooling).

Turn your engine on to preserve the battery and get better/quicker etc heat.
The car will still consume battery in Sport mode until I hit 27 miles. I guess you are saying your less screwed if you turn it to Sport mode to get heat then turn off the heat use the seat warmers and turn Stealth back on?

Anyone have steps if I understand it wrong?

Second, Would EV mode help or any mode you offer @PowerSource?
 

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The car will still consume battery in Sport mode until I hit 27 miles. I guess you are saying your less screwed if you turn it to Sport mode to get heat then turn off the heat use the seat warmers and turn Stealth back on?

Anyone have steps if I understand it wrong?

Second, Would EV mode help or any mode you offer @PowerSource?
The coolant/heater loop when in SPORT mode is different than in STEALTH mode.

The ICE adds additional heat. In EV mode when the ICE is running, you will see similar heater performance to SPORT mode.
 

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The car will still consume battery in Sport mode until I hit 27 miles. I guess you are saying your less screwed if you turn it to Sport mode to get heat then turn off the heat use the seat warmers and turn Stealth back on?

Anyone have steps if I understand it wrong?

Second, Would EV mode help or any mode you offer @PowerSource?
As I understand it, in Sport mode waste heat from running the ICE is used to warm the fluid reservoir used by the cabin heat much like it is in a conventional ICE car. In the Karma there is a secondary 'electrically expensive' mechanism to warm this reservoir in Stealth mode. The thinking is that using the ICE (Sport mode) just long enough to bring everything up to temperature then switching to Stealth with the heat still on is overall more efficient than Stealth mode alone using electrical heating only. This approach trades a little bit of gasoline for longer overall EV-only range, and also a warmer cabin quicker.

Under any regimen the seat heaters are still a better first-use option, which is why even the rear seats have heaters. Seat heaters are considerably more energy efficient than heating cabin air.

Brent
 

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Is there a way to program the car to activate the seat heaters while connected to the 230v? Best would be to do this remotely. The Audi folks gave me a small remote control for my pre-heater... and I'm kind of jealous.

The key here would be to get the cabin warm without involving the battery!
 

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Is there a way to program the car to activate the seat heaters while connected to the 230v? Best would be to do this remotely. The Audi folks gave me a small remote control for my pre-heater... and I'm kind of jealous.

The key here would be to get the cabin warm without involving the battery!
It's too bad the precondition feature was not enabled in the production Karmas. It would have been nice to have that when I was living in New Hampshire.
 

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Battery versus the cold

In Belgium, it now is freezing every night. My car sleeps outside, but it is under a carport. The winters are not that strong, I think it freezes 10 to 15 times a year. Is that a problem for the high voltage battery? Should I try to cover the car or something...
 

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It's too bad the precondition feature was not enabled in the production Karmas. It would have been nice to have that when I was living in New Hampshire.

I know, but preconditioning - as of my understanding - would gebe kept the car in the last condition set at switch off time.
I'm thinking of bypassing this and just send some kind of CAN message to the seats, if it is 6:00am and the car is on 230v...

Might be some bullshit idea, but still would be nice.

About cold packs in Belgium:
I doubt, that you have more freezing periods or lower temps during the night, than we normally face.
I'm using the Karma since 2012. It is exposed to the elements 7/24 all year... no problems so far...
 

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I know, but preconditioning - as of my understanding - would gebe kept the car in the last condition set at switch off time.
I'm thinking of bypassing this and just send some kind of CAN message to the seats, if it is 6:00am and the car is on 230v...
As I understood preconditioning, that was how it worked. Maybe turn on the Auto mode with the existing settings.

Turning on the seat heaters would be nice too, but that only works for cold weather. The precondition would have worked equally well for hot or cold weather, as long as the temperature was set to your liking before you locked the car.

Also, limiting the remote activation to the key fob would mean that you have to be very close to the car to get the heat/precondition going. Ideally, you would be able to send a message to the car over the air before leaving the house, or have a timer activate the feature autonomously (which I think is what you suggested.)

I think all of this is possible as long as you have a programmable CAN interface that could mediate between you and the car. I wonder if anyone makes anything like that ....
 

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I know, but preconditioning - as of my understanding - would gebe kept the car in the last condition set at switch off time.
I'm thinking of bypassing this and just send some kind of CAN message to the seats, if it is 6:00am and the car is on 230v...

Might be some bullshit idea, but still would be nice.

About cold packs in Belgium:
I doubt, that you have more freezing periods or lower temps during the night, than we normally face.
I'm using the Karma since 2012. It is exposed to the elements 7/24 all year... no problems so far...

If x temp outside the heated seats turn on.

Heated seats powered by 12v battery not HV so would have to close contactors and enable APM. Could be done but is on a different bus (lin).
 
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