Fisker Buzz Forums banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
EX:Shadow/Canyon #324
Joined
·
1,217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I found this quote from Ray Lane, now lead director of Fisker, in a Forbes article. The main subject was the failure of Bright Automotive, a maker of EV delivery vans that had been seeking DOE funds.

“Solyndra changed the world,” complained Ray Lane, a managing partner at Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, one of Fisker’s major backers, who says the automaker now has no choice but to look to China as a potential source of additional funds. “The Chinese have a lot of money, but they don’t know how to design (electric vehicle) platforms,” he said. Fisker recently hired former Chrysler chief executive Tom LaSorda, who has extensive business contacts in China, to help Fisker move on, with or without help from the U.S. government.

Lane thinks the U.S. is making a mistake by not doing more to ensure advanced vehicle technologies — and the jobs that come with them — stay in this country. “If you believe that in the next few years the car industry is going to become electrified, the U.S. has to take a position on whether we want to own it. My bet is not.”


Its too bad Fisker may need to partner with the Chinese and equip them to compete more effectively with the U.S. in yet another new technology area. But Fisker needs to ensure its own survival, and it looks like they will.

The entire article is interesting reading, and shows how the current political environment in Washington is hurting U.S. chances to lead the EV marketplace.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2012/03/01/is-america-blowing-its-chance-to-lead-in-electric-vehicles/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
457 Posts
Again, we can't blame the DOE that Fisker missed its targets. Yes, they're buckling down after solyndra last fall, but let's not forget it was last SPRING that fisker stopped getting funds, and it was due to them missing targets, they need to stop passing blame.

Also, Fisker DESIGNS nice cars, they don't build electric powertrains or do battery research, so in the argument of the US keeping the IP in-country, then they'd be better off giving a123 money to continue developing batteries and quantum to continue to improve their hybrid drivetrain.

They're playing politics more than the government is.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,975 Posts
Btw, the electric motors in the Karma are currently made in China...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
AnOutsider said:
Again, we can't blame the DOE that Fisker missed its targets. Yes, they're buckling down after solyndra last fall, but let's not forget it was last SPRING that fisker stopped getting funds, and it was due to them missing targets, they need to stop passing blame.

Also, Fisker DESIGNS nice cars, they don't build electric powertrains or do battery research, so in the argument of the US keeping the IP in-country, then they'd be better off giving a123 money to continue developing batteries and quantum to continue to improve their hybrid drivetrain.

They're playing politics more than the government is.
Outsider - Do you really think the DoE is bothered that Fisker missed the numbers last year? Give me a break!

Here are the facts... Fisker may have missed a milestone, but the Gov't / DoE really wants to give them more money as they KNOW it would bring jobs to DE. However they won't risk the Obama re-election for it. I would bet the moment Obama wins over Mit, the DoE would tell Fisker to begin drawing on the $340 Million. The reality is FISKER can PROVID MORE JOBS that both AONE and QTWW. Fisker has raised a HELL of a lot more money than QTWW or AONE ever could. And THESE Jobs are about to go BYE BYE. The DoE is better of loaning Fisker the money. At this point FISKER is better off WITHOUT IT.

BTW - Fisker is the ONLY company that has a product on the road as a result of the EERE program.


If it we're me, I'd slap a FOR SALE sign on that Factory in DE and say " ??" to the DoE.

Let's move on....the 'world' wants their Karma's and Nina's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
457 Posts
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the flow of cash stop BEFORE the Solyndra scandal? If so, the idea that it was all about re election would seem less plausible at that point. I fact, didn't bright automotive just go under as well because the DoE hadn't approved their loans for years? It sounds like they're doing their job and vetting companies to me.

As for jobs, possibly, but without fisker proving it can do what they say, the jobs are a pipe dream anyway. How many times has the union workers in Delaware called fisker out for stringing them along?

If fisker can get Chinese funds I say they should go for it. I don't think there's much chance of them riding the "American made" wave any more. The brand is already seen as being barely American.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
AnOutsider said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the flow of cash stop BEFORE the Solyndra scandal? If so, the idea that it was all about re election would seem less plausible at that point. I fact, didn't bright automotive just go under as well because the DoE hadn't approved their loans for years? It sounds like they're doing their job and vetting companies to me.

As for jobs, possibly, but without fisker proving it can do what they say, the jobs are a pipe dream anyway. How many times has the union workers in Delaware called fisker out for stringing them along?

If fisker can get Chinese funds I say they should go for it. I don't think there's much chance of them riding the "American made" wave any more. The brand is already seen as being barely American.

Kind of like Apple.
[hr]
AnOutsider said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the flow of cash stop BEFORE the Solyndra scandal? If so, the idea that it was all about re election would seem less plausible at that point. I fact, didn't bright automotive just go under as well because the DoE hadn't approved their loans for years? It sounds like they're doing their job and vetting companies to me.

As for jobs, possibly, but without fisker proving it can do what they say, the jobs are a pipe dream anyway. How many times has the union workers in Delaware called fisker out for stringing them along?

If fisker can get Chinese funds I say they should go for it. I don't think there's much chance of them riding the "American made" wave any more. The brand is already seen as being barely American.
DoE was aware Solyndra was going to file Ch 11 in May/June of 2011. It was public in late August. DoE owed Fisker $40 Million in PO in May/June 2011. I think the DoE asked Fisker to raise more money, which they did and then some, and the DoE sat on their hands.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
457 Posts
Which sounds similar to what happened to Bright (though over a longer period of time). They should go for the Chinese funds. People are already negative towards them for getting govt money in the first place... Might as well get more money with less restrictions.

And yes, like Apple. Research is done here and they design the frickin boxes here, but their goods are made over in china and (I think) Korea.
 

·
EX:Shadow/Canyon #324
Joined
·
1,217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
AnOutsider said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the flow of cash stop BEFORE the Solyndra scandal? If so, the idea that it was all about re election would seem less plausible at that point. I fact, didn't bright automotive just go under as well because the DoE hadn't approved their loans for years? It sounds like they're doing their job and vetting companies to me.

As for jobs, possibly, but without fisker proving it can do what they say, the jobs are a pipe dream anyway. How many times has the union workers in Delaware called fisker out for stringing them along?

If fisker can get Chinese funds I say they should go for it. I don't think there's much chance of them riding the "American made" wave any more. The brand is already seen as being barely American.
From Wikipedia:

In February, 2011, Solyndra restructured its loans with government approval, in an attempt to keep the company afloat. Two funds (Argonaut Ventures LLP and Madrone Partners LP) invested an additional $69 million as part of the restructuring, and Solyndra's debt to the government was subordinated to this new investment.

Solyndra was already headed south when the DOE cut off the disbursements to Fisker.

We have to remember that the DOE loan is about the Nina being built in Delaware. Fisker is an American company that has subcontracted Karma manufacturing to Valmet in Finland. My Maroney sticker says that US/Canadian parts content is 50%. All engineering is done in California. So the Republicans and the anti-EV folks can try to paint Fisker as some non-American company, but it ain't so.

As for pipe dreams, the Karma was seen as Henrik's pipe dream when the concept car was shown 4 years ago, and now there are hundreds of us enjoying driving one every day. I think it would be foolish to bet against Fisker and the Nina.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
457 Posts
If its about jobs as someone said above, then the car needs to be MADE in the USA, it isn't, hence why they can't 100% be considered an American automaker by the public (and most don't).

As for betting against them, who said anything about that? If they can get money that's not from the govt and move forward, then they should do it!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,001 Posts
The Porsche Boxter has been assembled at Valmet. I have never thought of the Porsche Boxter as anything but a German car. Not just barely German.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
457 Posts
And vw assembles cars in Mexico and the USA, but they're not receiving loans from the German government either are they? the big 3 also have overseas plants but are headquartered and build cars here in the USA. They are seen as American. A niche car maker that designs cars here but sends them overseas to be built won't be seen as American (just go ahead and browse some blogs and opinions on the matter).

That's beyond the point though...

Listen, I know, you're fans of fisker, but I have to side with the DoE on this one: meet your milestones or stop getting money. Any way you slice it, if fisker can get money without depending on the government, they should go for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
dennis said:
I found this quote from Ray Lane, now lead director of Fisker, in a Forbes article. The main subject was the failure of Bright Automotive, a maker of EV delivery vans that had been seeking DOE funds.

“Solyndra changed the world,” complained Ray Lane, a managing partner at Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, one of Fisker’s major backers, who says the automaker now has no choice but to look to China as a potential source of additional funds. “The Chinese have a lot of money, but they don’t know how to design (electric vehicle) platforms,” he said. Fisker recently hired former Chrysler chief executive Tom LaSorda, who has extensive business contacts in China, to help Fisker move on, with or without help from the U.S. government.

Lane thinks the U.S. is making a mistake by not doing more to ensure advanced vehicle technologies — and the jobs that come with them — stay in this country. “If you believe that in the next few years the car industry is going to become electrified, the U.S. has to take a position on whether we want to own it. My bet is not.”


Its too bad Fisker may need to partner with the Chinese and equip them to compete more effectively with the U.S. in yet another new technology area. But Fisker needs to ensure its own survival, and it looks like they will.

The entire article is interesting reading, and shows how the current political environment in Washington is hurting U.S. chances to lead the EV marketplace.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2012/03/01/is-america-blowing-its-chance-to-lead-in-electric-vehicles/


Winston Chung is rumored to be one of the investors interested in Fisker:

http://en.winston-battery.com/

He already has purchased a home in the area and has heavily invested in Krystal Enterprises (a local company that builds green busses/limo's etc).. Chung owns a battery manufacturing company in China and has been looking to build a plant in Southern California....Seems like a logical fit no?

http://www.krystal.cc/Buses/Alternative-Fuel-Bus.asp[hr]
SoCalGuy said:
Btw, the electric motors in the Karma are currently made in China...
The electric motor for Tesla's are made in Taiwan...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
784 Posts
I wouldn't be surprised if the Tesla Roadster has less US parts than the Karma (which has 50%). The whole Roadster-body is already being imported. And I don't think the thousands of laptop-batteries are being produced in the US either. Still, a lot of people consider the Tesla an American car. I guess it's all about perception, not much about fact.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
BTW - Fisker is the ONLY company that has a product on the road as a result of the EERE program.
I am not sure it was under the EERE program, but the Leaf and Ford products have definitely benefitted from much larger DOE loans than Fisker has received. I think most people do not categorize Nissan as an "American" company...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,659 Posts
I am not sure the source of the investment makes that much of a difference to the identity of the company. Fisker already has many foreign sovereign fund investors and one of the board members is a director of Quatar holdings. That does not make Fiske anything other than a US company that is recognized as a great investment all around the world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
854 Posts
EV Driver said:
The electric motor for Tesla's are made in Taiwan...
Initially Tesla had set up their own motor manufacturing plant in Taiwan but as production got rolling they moved it back to California. Many were made at the Tesla headquarters right here in Palo Alto.

[hr]
Dutch said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the Tesla Roadster has less US parts than the Karma (which has 50%). The whole Roadster-body is already being imported. And I don't think the thousands of laptop-batteries are being produced in the US either. Still, a lot of people consider the Tesla an American car. I guess it's all about perception, not much about fact.
The cells are from Japan, but the battery packs are assembled in California (San Carlos and later Palo Alto). Roadsters sold in North America have US VINs because the drivetrain, which is more than 50% of the car's value, is made and final assembly is done in the US.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
AnOutsider said:
And vw assembles cars in Mexico and the USA, but they're not receiving loans from the German government either are they? the big 3 also have overseas plants but are headquartered and build cars here in the USA. They are seen as American. A niche car maker that designs cars here but sends them overseas to be built won't be seen as American (just go ahead and browse some blogs and opinions on the matter).

That's beyond the point though...

Listen, I know, you're fans of fisker, but I have to side with the DoE on this one: meet your milestones or stop getting money. Any way you slice it, if fisker can get money without depending on the government, they should go for it.
I would much rather say my Fisker is NOT an American car. I'd much rather have Fisker get funding, build, and advance there company, not being part of the losing American car industry. There is not one American car worth spending a dime on. Yes, I am 100% American and Proud of that, but lets face it, our cars SUCK. Please Fisker, don't be an American car....
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top