[SoCalGuy]

Given all the rumors about Lutz $20M deal, wonder if Tesla with its $1B of cash (ok, more like $500M after DOE repayment) wouldn't want to pickup FA for $20-40M. The more I learn about the Karma, the more I can appreciate the nuances (and challenges) of its powertrain.

I've wondered if Elon himself has driven a Karma - is he aware of its handling and the overall driver experience? Maybe that would alter his perception of FA and help put to the side his ego/ill feelings toward Henrik.

 

[dennis]

Given all the rumors about Lutz $20M deal, wonder if Tesla with its $1B of cash (ok, more like $500M after DOE repayment) wouldn't want to pickup FA for $20-40M. The more I learn about the Karma, the more I can appreciate the nuances (and challenges) of its powertrain.

I've wondered if Elon himself has driven a Karma - is he aware of its handling and the overall driver experience? Maybe that would alter his perception of FA and help put to the side his ego/ill feelings toward Henrik.

IMO, it makes no sense. Tesla is pure BEV and adding any hybrid drivetrain options would dilute their marketing message. And with the P+ suspension, the Model S now handles at least as well as the Karma. So leaving aside the Elon/Henrik thing, it doesn't make business sense and comes with huge baggage.

 

[Falcon9]

I don't think the ego of Elon will let him. He already think all combustion engine cars are obsolete, let alone a company he sued and now in the brink of bankruptcy.

Also, Tesla is in no way a completely success yet, they are still in their infancy with only 1 car model. They barely have enough resource to push Model X out.

 

[AnOutsider]

Like Dennis, I can't see it happening. What would he get out of it? I think he agreed handling needed work and that's why the p+ was born. Why spend 20mm for that?

 

[SoCalGuy]

I think for the next 5-10Y, there will still be market demand for an EV with onboard REx... As problematic as the powertrain was initially, I think it is now in the final stretch of becoming a very good and efficient product. Powertrain 2.0 with the BMW N20 is much more efficient and refined and this could be worth a lot more than $20M to an automaker interested in pursuing that market.

 

[Fabulist]

I think for the next 5-10Y, there will still be market demand for an EV with onboard REx... As problematic as the powertrain was initially, I think it is now in the final stretch of becoming a very good and efficient product. Powertrain 2.0 with the BMW N20 is much more efficient and refined and this could be worth a lot more than $20M to an automaker interested in pursuing that market.

I agree. Even though Tesla's BEV range far exceeds what most of us drive in day, our collective infantile attachment to rapid refueling is so ingrained that, like any other addiction, we need to be weaned off it over time. The EVER technology is our version of Methadone to help us get over the gas addition and with each revision, the battery is going to get bigger, and the ICE smaller until it completely atrophies away.

As for Fisker, I think at these prices, assuming DOE finally gets rational, Fisker is a much better play for an established car maker who would rather make a real and desirable low-emission, high MPG car rather than just a compliance car . At $50M (and dropping), buying Fisker rather than developing the technology in-house will save a company significant R&D expense and the end product is pretty desirable to boot.

 

[txam99]

$20M is a joke, Lutz just wants the rights to the design so he can gut and cram the corvette engine in it & guarantee a future for Destino, a boutique automaker....if the Karma was a motorcycle, it would be like selling to Orange County Choppers so they are assured they can keep building unique bikes on a small scale. Was a big waste of excitement for owners hoping for a resurrection.

 

[doug]

Existing thread on this topic: http://www.fiskerbuzz.com/forums/14-fisker-lounge/2873-tesla-buying-fisker.html

Egos aside, there's nothing Fisker has that Tesla wants. Definitely agree that there is demand in the market for plug-in vehicles with ICE range extenders, but that's not a something Tesla is currently interested in pursuing. Hopefully GM will have more offerings in that space, as well as BMW and Volvo. (Toyota's Plug-in Prius barely counts.)

 

[konig]

Not even considering business validity, there is no way that Elon would drive a Karma. To say that he is not a fan of Fisker (the man or the business) is an understatement.

As job security became an issue for the Fisker engineering team, many of us looked at Tesla for an opportunity. Every engineer, after successful interviews and recommendation by the Tesla engineering team for hire, has to be personally approved by Elon himself. Fisker employees, particularly those from the powertrain group, were blackballed.

 

[Fabulist]

Not even considering business validity, there is no way that Elon would drive a Karma. To say that he is not a fan of Fisker (the man or the business) is an understatement.

As job security became an issue for the Fisker engineering team, many of us looked at Tesla for an opportunity. Every engineer, after successful interviews and recommendation by the Tesla engineering team for hire, has to be personally approved by Elon himself. Fisker employees, particularly those from the powertrain group, were blackballed.

I would speculate that some part of the reason is a concern by Tesla about a possible trade secret misappropriation lawsuit by a desperate and cash-strapped Fisker since Fisker seems to think that there is still some value in the hybrid power train.

 

[Sandy Eggo]

Also, Tesla is in no way a completely success yet, they are still in their infancy with only 1 car model. They barely have enough resource to push Model X out.

Exactly. Profitable quarter and loan repayment is pretty huge BUT what happens when they satiate the pent up demand for the car? I think I read somewhere they had about 10,000 backorders.

When it's all said and done, the Model S is a $80-100k car. Even with their inventive leasing and buy-back programs, they will have a tough road to hoe in order to keep selling them as fast as they can make them.

I think that the price + range anxiety will present some challenges in maintaining the sales momentum.

 

[SoCalGuy]

Not even considering business validity, there is no way that Elon would drive a Karma. To say that he is not a fan of Fisker (the man or the business) is an understatement.

As job security became an issue for the Fisker engineering team, many of us looked at Tesla for an opportunity. Every engineer, after successful interviews and recommendation by the Tesla engineering team for hire, has to be personally approved by Elon himself. Fisker employees, particularly those from the powertrain group, were blackballed.

Sorry to hear about that - its amazing how a lot of this stuff comes down to social/soft stuff.

But back to my original question - do you think Elon has driven a Karma at least once?

 

[NJFISKERGUY]

SoCaGuy im going to say no...

 

[smoothoperator]

driven or been inside?

 

[NJFISKERGUY]

Driven

 

[SoCalGuy]

Would just be shocking to not have tried it (although I know most of the Fisker engineers and Henrik had never driven an MS until very recently)

 

[Nin ja]

Who cares what jobs or Henrik or Elon would drive, what's important is we drove and we bought!

 

[Makis]

At the end of the day both technologies will evolve
Fisker has overdone the range Extender side and needs to simplify it and TESLA needs to solve the range anxiety present in every long drive. In case of Fisker designing a car in case one of us decides to drive across country is way overboard and was done at the expense of stealth range. TESLA on the other hand will have to address the problem of having 300 TESLA owners lined up in front of charge stations waiting for their turn on their way to Boston from Washington DC.
IMHO Fisker needed nothing more than a small engine to get us home when the larger 5oKw battery ran out.

 

[shrowell]

An old thread, but this is a fun read...

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1208_q_and_a_elon_musk_ceo_tesla/