Fisker Buzz Forums banner
1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys. Last week I have bought nice Fisker Eco Sport, Earth. It is 43 thousand km driven, by Kroymans logo it seems it was sold new in Netherland from where I bought it.





I know Fiskers are not easy cars to own, living their own life with more or less bugs to live with, but I wondered what you can say me about two issues I'm experiencing right from begining.

Fist trouble I have is weird behavior when traction battery gets empty. If I reach about 20 km of range, the bar graph with remaining km on battery starts dropping fast to 0 km. From what I read at this forum engine should start at this point and it does. All right, but next time I start the car I have error MIL instead of speed at the top of my instrument panel. I used some Delphi diagnostic tool and it gave me P1B9F message. Do you know what this message mean? It is possible to be erased with diagnostic tool, I have not tried hard reset yet since it was not necessary. My range is about 60 km at highway speeds and then this happens. I guess range is more or less normal, but I think it should not end with error message. Below I took a video of what is happening:

https://youtu.be/ptkVbxr5Xig

Next issue I'm experiencing is oil leak from differential. I think it is quite significant, beacuse oil spill is there soon after I stop the vehicle, in less then hour. I think I might have Low Lands's car since it have the same color, same wheels and also Kroymans logo at the bumper. But since the car have quite unique wheels, it might be coinsidence.
I wondered if there is some solution to this already. EmilFrey (I'm so lucky there is operational delaership in my country!!) said to me that this is big problem and I should not buy this car. But I was simply not clever enough to look under it because I would not expected this kind of problem at such a new car with that low mileage. My mistake, but what can I do now. EmilFrey told me it is not possible to reseal it because it is not possible to diassemble differential unit. At this point I do not believe it, perhaps I understood them wrong, but anyway we Czech people are quite resourceful and I think it has to be possible. Truth is that EmilFrey guys did not seen my Fisker yet, I'm sheduled for service in two weeks. But you guys have more experience with this car then me, so I wondered your opinions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
So today I looked at the car from the bottom, removed rear motor cover and washed everything to get the idea from where the oil is leaking. I think it is from where rear motor shaft goes to the differential, but we will see tomorrow as soon as the oil will appear again.

This thread is very helpful to get the idea how the drivetrain looks like: http://www.fiskerbuzz.com/forums/13-fisker-karma/709-underneath-inside-karma.html

I was not able to see where differential oil check plug is to fill missing oil into differential, I wondered if it is even accessible. Hopefully I will figure out soon.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,077 Posts
Unfortunately you have the two biggest issues with the Karma a High Voltage Battery module that needs to be replaced the second is the leaking RDM. The RDM is leaking due to a Pinion Nut starting to loosen up. The fill plug for the RDM is hard to see you need to have the car up on a lift
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
484 Posts
Hi mira9,
Welcome to the buzz. Sorry about the bad news. Hopefully you bought your used Fisker super cheap. From what I can tell from being on this forum since 2012, you have about $20,000 dollars of repairs ahead of you. Did whoever sold you your car give you a warranty? I think in the USA you have a few days after you buy a car, to return it if it is from a dealer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Maybe it helps.
I bought my karma in holland weeks ago too. Had the same battery issue as you. After driving it to zero 5 times and charged up to full the problem is gone. The told me this problem can occur when the car stood for a while which my one did. After 3 charges it dropped from 7 to zero. Before was from 16 to zero . After 5 charges there was no problem anymore. The battery counts normal down to zero. I am happy with that. They also told me that it is good to charge 48 hours because of the balancing process which will work in this time. Hope you will have luck too.
Ove
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
Hi Mira,
Emil Frey in Prague is somewhat helpful and they have diagnostic tools to see if battery has bad modules. They also have some guy who comes in from Germany or Switzerland that can replace or repair bad battery module. And they used to be Fisker dealers so they know the car. Regarding drivetrain issue I am not sure if they can help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you for info guys. Not good news for me, but I will keep hoping everything will solve up.

Harleyguy, thank you, I will check the plug again. I found this thread telling more information about pinion nut issue. I wondered if the rear axle with RDM have to be removed from the car or if the pinion can be inspected in the vehicle? Under the car I saw there is not much space to do anything, but it is better to ask.
About the traction battery pack I'm not so worried (yet). As Hotrodove have written, it seems it is improving. Range started dropping from 20 km at first, now I can drive 16. But I'm doing my best to keep few km of range to not allow defective cell to drop to too low voltage level to prevent it from further damage. Anyway LiFePO4 is what I do for living and except Fisker is so beautiful car I have bought it to replace the battery for bigger capacity one day.

Steven, thank you for this opinion. There might be chance to return the car to the dealer, but honestly I don't fell much about this option. I'm worried that next Fisker I will buy will start to have same issues sooner or later. We will see how will I feel about that as soon as I will remove rear motor to see what can be done here..

Antonin, nice to meet you here. As far as now I have only met with the guy from fisker.cz and drove his nice silver car before purchasing mine. I will be pleasured to meet you one day. Perhaps you will might visit Night Prague Rallye? I plan to stop by. Guys from Emil Frey were not happy to hear about my problems and told me I'm in troubles. But they seems to be good guys, hopefully they will be able to give me some advices. I'm already sheduled for inspection. And I have heard that Switzerland guy is not in business anymore, but as I wrote I work with lithium batteries and I believe that if guys from Emil Frey will help me with their diagnostics software, I can repair the battery relatively easily.
Having still quite good range in stealth mode I hope it might be enough to manually balance the cells, but I don't know how low voltage Fisker BMS allows cells to fall. If it cuts above 2.5V per cell, I think there is good chance to make it work again for some time before the cells will go out of balance again. Meanwhile I hope I will manage to buy some older damaged battery and will build new pack into it. But I realize I'm at the begining of bigger story now :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
diagnostics output

If some of you is interested how output from Fisker diagnostic tool looks like, here it is.

Trouble codes:


Battery discharge, 200A, 45% SOC


Battery discharge, 200A, 25% SOC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
My car is back from service for 6 thousand km now. I had the newest firmware, but only part of it. I was told firmware is composed from packages, some were already updated and some not. They updated remaning packages to me and I should run the newest firmware now.
Battery was diagnosed as you can see at the pictures in last post. Few weaker cells can be observed here. You can see few cells are very close to empty under 200A at 25% SOC already - see 2.7V cells. 25% range decrease is what I estimated from driving the car. This is not so bad, I'm glad to see that BMS is most probably cutting off the battery somewhere above 2.5V and not lower. It means if I will not drive Fisker to empty electric range I can not hurt the cells any more. I can normally use the car until I will find some free time to remove the battery and balance it manually outside the vehicle. I need Fisker for this Winter, so it won't be sooner then next Spring.
Differential leak was checked and they added 0.2l of differential fluid. I must check again soon to see how bad it is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Few nice pictures of my Fisker taken week ago, just wanted to share them. Also I have Tesla P85+ now, amazing car, but I must say it is nothing like driving Karma.

Wheel Car Tire Vehicle Hood

Car Wheel Land vehicle Vehicle Automotive tire

Wheel Vehicle Car Land vehicle Tire
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
888 Posts
Cool pics. Thanks for sharing. Dump the MS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So the drivetrain is finally out of the car.






As you can see, I noticed wrong noise quite soon enough. I have two questions:

1 - What do you think that only lubricating the shaft would prevent any further abnormal wear? Splines were obviously not lubricated enough, there was lot of rust. No wonder that splines at fiskers are suffering badly. I don't mind the noise, I just don't want splines to suffer further. Loctiting will most probably stick the whole thing together and disassembling it for second time for any reason will be problem.

2 - Did anybody ever had problem with splines at front motor? Point is that removing rear motor is relatively speaking no problem. The front motor is on the other hand behind the subframe and to remove it it needs lot of disassembling. My point is that if nobody ever had troubles with splines at front motor I would not do that to save time. There is still lot of work with the battery and I can not block my fathers car lift forever.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,077 Posts
So the drivetrain is finally out of the car.






As you can see, I noticed wrong noise quite soon enough. I have two questions:

1 - What do you think that only lubricating the shaft would prevent any further abnormal wear? Splines were obviously not lubricated enough, there was lot of rust. No wonder that splines at fiskers are suffering badly. I don't mind the noise, I just don't want splines to suffer further. Loctiting will most probably stick the whole thing together and disassembling it for second time for any reason will be problem.

2 - Did anybody ever had problem with splines at front motor? Point is that removing rear motor is relatively speaking no problem. The front motor is on the other hand behind the subframe and to remove it it needs lot of disassembling. My point is that if nobody ever had troubles with splines at front motor I would not do that to save time. There is still lot of work with the battery and I can not block my fathers car lift forever.
The noise your probably hearing isn't the traction motors it's the RDM the pinion nut might be loose.
Fisker never lubed the splines and the rust is part of the reason the splines wore out. If the splines aren't worn or spun you can use Locktite do it on both motors since you have them out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·


Font motor splines checked and it it's shape is better.

Can you please tell me, is it necessary to bleed the cooling system when putting together?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,077 Posts


Font motor splines checked and it it's shape is better.

Can you please tell me, is it necessary to bleed the cooling system when putting together?
When we do work and it involves the cooling system we're able to run the coolant pumps in order to bleed the cooling system you won't be able to . What you can do is fill the cooling system and on top of the inverters in the trunk are two bleed screws . I have a long hose I hook up to the bleed screws and run the hose into a coolant jug.
I hook up my tool which allows me to pressurize the cooling system the same tool you use to check for a coolant leak . I pressurize the system and open the bleed screws it take a good amount of time since you have to keep pumping the tool and pressurize the system. Do one bleed screw at a time keep doing it until it seems to be bleed that should get you close enough to road test the car and the pumps will run and help bleed the system more.
Top up coolant bottle and good to go
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
drivetrain in, battery out

So drivetrain is back in vehicle, now the battery is being serviced. At the point battery was removed from the car, all cells but two were at nominal 3.25V. Those two were 3.19V and 3.18V. I decided to perform top balancing, charging all of them to full with small 5A chargers through grey connectors which goes from battery pack to BMS balancing boards.

What makes me sad is that this construction of the battery allows no option for equipping the battery with additional BMS, which I could actually control and perform additional balancing any time necessary. Soldering my own balancing wires to BMS balancing board seems to be risky. And connecting to original balancing wires before grey socket that leads to BMS boards is impossible, cable is too short. Disassembling battery modules is also nonsense, too much work. It seems less work to pull the pack out of the car for top balancing every 3-4 years if necessary, rather then doing risky job with custom BMS.





Now I can see what takes Powersource so long to introduce their own battery pack. With another LiFePO4 cells it is impossible to reach better capacity. And using li-ion cells needs to simulate quite complex original BMS. I never seen any original Fisker software, but I have no illusion that is would be as simple as to change Vmin and Vmax in some PC program :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Guys what is your experience with putting your Fiskers back together? :)
I must say my car was showing lot of errors after installing drivetrain back into the car. Fisker refused to come back alive, even 12V battery was disconnected for the whole time. I hoped car will not noticed without 12V battery that traction circuits will be disconnected, but I was wrong. Some scary MILs went on and I can only shift to N. You can see what is happening at the pictures below.

I decided that I can not do more harm to the situation if I will service battery first before I will start solving those errors. But I'm quite sure that errors will come back as soon as the HV battery will be back in the car.

We found this at the Fiskerbuzz forums, but I'm afraid it will take more than this: "I've been in this business for well over 35 years a Master ASE mechanic college degree . The Karma is not like any other Hybrid car ever made . But answer to your question remove the MSD then disconnect the 12 volt disconnect under the hood . Reinstall the MSD then hook up the 12 volt again . Recalibrate the emergency brake and calibrate the windows the car should go back into ready mode."

What do you think? Will I have to visit Fisker dealership to help me with their diagnostic tool?





And I took the video too: https://youtu.be/m0IwhSaJ4kU
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
whoever did your repair didn't do it properly also looks like you have a HVIL fault somewhere.. Good luck
Well, me and my dad did the job. This is not first E.V./hybrid we are working with and we are doing everything as carefully as we are able to do. But anything could happen of course, this is the first Fisker we are working with. If you have any tips what to watch for and you are willing to share, please do so. As soon as battery will be in the car, this will be hot topic for me.
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top