Fisker Buzz Forums banner

China's Wanxiang to rebrand Fisker as Elux - sources

19K views 59 replies 28 participants last post by  EVer1 
#1 ·
Time to change the name of the forum to ELUXBUZZ..... :dodgy:

I pray this is not the case because the name ELUX sucks. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The name Fisker sounds cool, ELUX sounds like fucking light bulb not a car. Obviously the Fisker name has had some bad press but long term the Fisker name I believe is a much better brand than ELUX. It needs to be something cool and unique. ELUX which I'm assuming stands for Electric Luxury is too plain and boring. Thoughts?

------

DETROIT (Reuters) - Chinese auto parts maker Wanxiang Group will push back its planned relaunch of the defunct Fisker Karma hybrid sports car until mid-2016 and rebrand Fisker Automotive as Elux, two sources familiar with the plan said Sunday.

Wanxiang, which acquired the assets of California-based Fisker Automotive a year ago in a U.S. bankruptcy auction, had hoped to revive the Karma this year.

The revised version of the Karma will be renamed Elux Karma and the Fisker name will be dropped, said the sources, who asked not to be named because they were not authorized to speak for Wanxiang.

The sources said the revived gasoline-electric car will not be assembled in Finland as earlier planned. Wanxiang has not finalized a production site, the sources said.

Wanxiang plans to price the car from around $135,000, the sources said, nearly 20 percent higher than the final price of the original Karma, which ceased production in 2012.

Wanxiang did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Fisker Automotive was an early rival of Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA.O), but despite the backing of the U.S. government and private investors, the company failed just six years after its 2007 launch.

Fisker Automotive was co-founded by Danish designer Henrik Fisker, who previously created such well-received sports cars as the Aston Martin DB9 and the BMW Z8.

Last fall, Henrik Fisker resurfaced as the designer of a special limited edition of the Ford Mustang, dubbed the Rocket, created for California dealer Galpin Ford.

One of the sources said the revived Fisker car likely would be based heavily on Henrik Fisker's original Karma design.

One question is whether and how much Wanxiang will revise the car's battery pack, which was developed and supplied by another U.S. company, A123 Systems, that went bankrupt and was eventually acquired by Wanxiang.

One of the sources said Wanxiang is spending "millions" to update the car's hardware, much of which dates back seven years, to make it more competitive with newer vehicles introduced in the last several years.

(Reporting by Paul Lienert in Detroit; Editing by Tom Brown)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclu...vbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDUTFNQzFfMQRzZWMDc3I-
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I agree that ELux sounds more like a vacuum cleaner than a car, but unfortunately the name Fisker has a fair amount of baggage associated with it now, and there may also be legal, practical, and marketing issues with using the name of a potential competitor as your company name, even if you have the rights to the name.
 
#5 · (Edited)
What is in the head, or spoken in a methapher, in the hearts of the people is the beautyness / functionality of the car ? - Thats the status quo every marketing CEO would ask first... as brand values are essentially and not easily to create.

Reading the postings here in the forum clearly shows it... It remembers me to those car owners who loved to drive Italian sports cars in the 70th and 80th, e.g. Lancias and Alfa Romeos. All have known till the 90th that the quality lacks extremly... but the sportivness of these cars, the engines and chassis were outstanding (Rec.: I know what I am talking about... as I drove on my own a Lancia Beta Coupe 2.0 which I had to warm up first 5 kilometers because the oil sump had no baffle plates and therefore it was too risky to drive with speed into curves getting a seized-up piston while the oil was still cold.)

To buy such an extra-ordinary, expensive car (at a prize of 100,000 or higher) like a Fisker isnt a rational decision anymore (and cant be such one... as there exist some better Eco alternatives - under purely environmental aspects).

A good example is Jaguar, which failed as English brand - with an outstanding understatement of British elegance and nobless - in the late 80th (and still in the 90th). - The maintenance work and repair costs of a Jaguar easily climbed up to 10,000 dollars and higher with one garage visit.
Jaguar tried to rescue its image being sold to Ford in 1990... for modernizing its production and using the basis of Ford company's cars to bring down the production costs. - Did Ford rename the Jaguar brand ? - We know the answer...

Under 2nd new ownership (India's biggest company Tata bought Jaguar in 2008) and wIth the new F-Type (since 2012) the whole range of products receives a restructuring... and the image of Jaguar herewith didnt suffer extremly. Did Tata Motors rename Jaguar because of its bad image ?

Imagine, Tata Motors would have renamed Jaguar into something like Tigre to come free of the negative image the cars still had. - That way Marketing in automotive segments doesnt work.

As another example we could take the S.m.a.r.t. ... which suffered extremly by bad sales volumes in the 90th, too.... but with DaimplerCrysler as new owner in 1998 and a complete restructuring this brand is still alive and has its market as city hopper.

I dont see any reason why a Fisker should not stay a Fisker... a Fisker Karma - by its look - and thats all what counts on first sight - has to be a Fisker... as the brand values around the design and basic concept (double electric engines + generation for long distance range) is what counts. Its the core of the brand... beside all critics of "bad quality".

We see nowadays excatly this concept in XXL Hybrid City buses... here one of the leading companies is settled in Switzerland... the corporation Hess http://www.hess-ag.ch/en/busse/technologie/hybridtechnik.php .

E.g. The buses are used by Hanseatic City Hamburg (where I live) and I experienced them on my own. Its excatly the concept as we know it in a Fisker... and its a great way to reduce gasoline consumption and noise. - Just different names, e.g. "Silent mode" at bus stations where only the electric motors run while the busses are charged outside the bus stations by a diesel engine. Same princips works with the braking energy in these buses (which is nothing new as reuperation brakes are used since longer in train engines, e.g. the legendary crocodile of Swiss railway used it since long... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_(locomotive) )

So why changing the basic concept of a Fisker if it's concept is used - under heavy load - in inner-city traffic systems successfully and other systems ? - A new name would not make sense, not at all.
As I see it the main critics is the battery tunnel which takes a lot of space away, the small trunk and the heavy weight (compared with a Tesla) of nearby 1,600 kilogrammes. Mainly these three critics must be changed... beside some other smaller issues (e.g. software, tires).

The battery charging problems will be solved by further development within the battery industries... as Wanxiang bought the US lithium-ion battery maker A123 Systems in Dec 2012 for a bit price of 256.6 million US dollars, the solution probably is already in the pocket for the next generation of Fisker cars.
A123 just got a new FEO ( http://www.a123systems.com/media-room-2015-press-releases.htm ) which is a clear signal to the public that the growth of 2014 will be expanded. There is no need for worries about that A123 wont deliver an adequate solution for the new Fiskers beginning of 2016.

I suppose, that Wanxiang targets at a total different market, the Chinese / Asian market... and not the US or European market as there the traffic jam is heavily in the huge mega cities... They need there electro cars urgently.

E.g. look at South Korea/Seoul. There owners of a Hyundai Equus ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Equus ) might buy a rebranded Fisker as 2nd car, to have a more sportive hybrid version.

Therefore the reason (as marketing issue) might be that phonetically Chinese and Asians have troubles with Fisker to pronounce it easily and properly... and "Elux" might be seen as the solution to make the concept attractive to one of the biggest car markets in the world (beside India, Africa).

Since last 10 years I am focussed on South Asian markets in my 2nd profession as media producer (mainly India) and since 2014 I am involved in an Asian project (China, Korea, Japan) which shows me that China and Korea mainly are focussed on their own markets. They do not care a lot about Western thinking.

Personally I'd prefer Fisker (as Western)... sounds more cool. :)
 
#3 ·
To parse this

DETROIT (Reuters) - Chinese auto parts maker Wanxiang Group will push back its planned relaunch of the defunct Fisker Karma hybrid sports car until mid-2016 and rebrand Fisker Automotive as Elux, two sources familiar with the plan said Sunday.
I propose a contest for who can come closest to release date

Wanxiang, which acquired the assets of California-based Fisker Automotive a year ago in a U.S. bankruptcy auction, had hoped to revive the Karma this year.
Hope springs eternal

The revised version of the Karma will be renamed Elux Karma and the Fisker name will be dropped, said the sources, who asked not to be named because they were not authorized to speak for Wanxiang.
Like Fab, I immediately thought of ELECTROLUX, which is a throwback to the past, not the future. Maybe we can encourage them to sue for trademark infringement

The sources said the revived gasoline-electric car will not be assembled in Finland as earlier planned. Wanxiang has not finalized a production site, the sources said.
don't tell Valmet, or we'll never get those parts

Wanxiang plans to price the car from around $135,000, the sources said, nearly 20 percent higher than the final price of the original Karma, which ceased production in 2012.
wonder if this will lift 2012 prices

Wanxiang did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Lost in translation

Fisker Automotive was an early rival of Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA.O), but despite the backing of the U.S. government and private investors, the company failed just six years after its 2007 launch.
Ah, I remember the Obama/Romney debates so well, when Mitt accused the president of 'picking losers', mentioning both companies in the same breath

...
One of the sources said the revived Fisker car likely would be based heavily on Henrik Fisker's original Karma design.
I hope "heavily" enough that new parts fit 2012

One question is whether and how much Wanxiang will revise the car's battery pack, which was developed and supplied by another U.S. company, A123 Systems, that went bankrupt and was eventually acquired by Wanxiang.
Yes, I sincerely hope A123 is still making batteries for Karmas new and old

One of the sources said Wanxiang is spending "millions" to update the car's hardware, much of which dates back seven years, to make it more competitive with newer vehicles introduced in the last several years.
Millions isn't a lot in the car design world.
 
#4 · (Edited)
What a nonsenes... in my job as consultant for strategic marketing very often I experience(ed) that so called "CEOs" damage/destroy the core values of a "brand" and act like stupid in the sense of "new is always better".

I am Jaguar driver (XJS V12, Daimler Double6) and on weekend I fell over the Fisker Karma... and fell in love with. What beautyness... (More I am scared to think about buying one when reading in this forum about all the troubles the owners have with this car.)

Its pitty, that Mr. Fisker from Denmark seemed of bad qualities as FEO ruining hundreds of millions dollars... an excellent designer, no doubt.... and the global image FIsker already created by its concept, media attention and more than 2,400 Karmas built is worth the buyin by Wanxiang at the bit prize of 149.2 million US dollars.

If Weiding Lu (CEO), Pin Ni (president of Wanxian) and Lu Guanqiu (chairman) should follow the advices of their marketing chiefs, product managers and conultants of advertising agency to rename FIsker into Elux they will be fooled... and ruin everything what has been built.

But so it is... people with nothing else than big money, lacking of love and passion... and probably not owning a Fisker always damage a brand's value. History repeats again and again.

ELux remembers me AccuLux... an international (German) brand founded by the German engineer Witte who developed the first ever rechargable lights.... http://www.acculux.eu

A car/automotive brand shouldnt get the image to be a torch only because it has a sun roof solar panel and using electricity instead of petrol, isn't ? - What bad idea...
 
#7 ·
@SenseMaker2015, rebranding is a tricky thing. Sometimes it works well (Exxon from Esso) but often it fails miserably. One example I witnessed first hand was McAfee, which was the company that invented computer virus scanning, spent a lot of money rebranding itself as Network General in the early 2000's, only to go back to the McAfee name a few years later. Today, despite Mr. McAfee's bizarre behavior in the last couple of years, the company shows no desire to change the name to something else.

There may be very good reasons to change the company's name to something other than Fisker - even native English speakers sometimes have difficulty pronouncing it - but I think they could have done better than ELux.
 
#8 ·
Sensemaker: keep in mind that the decision to abandon the name "Fisker" may not have been entirely Wainxiang's, because when they bought the company out of bankruptcy last year, they appear to not have bought the rights to use the name (this was discussed elsewhere on the board last year). This makes a little bit of sense, since Henrik is still in the business of designing cars, but it was a pretty shocking development in the case.

In response to another point you made: although it is true that you will read on this board about lots of problems with the car, I wouldn't conclude from that that the car itself if fault-ridden. It is simply the nature of a forum to post questions and problems to seek solutions. You are less likely to hear all the good qualities of the car, which for me has been relatively fault-free after 16,000 miles of driving.

The Karma is without doubt one of the coolest things I've ever bought (the other being an original copy of Detective 27, which you see sharing my avatar with the logo - you can't drive a comic book though!).
 
#16 ·
copyright ownership...

Sensemaker: keep in mind that the decision to abandon the name "Fisker" may not have been entirely Wainxiang's, because when they bought the company out of bankruptcy last year, they appear to not have bought the rights to use the name (this was discussed elsewhere on the board last year). This makes a little bit of sense, since Henrik is still in the business of designing cars, but it was a pretty shocking development in the case.
I would seen this restriction a very bad decisoin by Mr. Fisker to forbid Wainxiang using this name. I would not call it keen that he keeps silent for some years... and then start again a new Fisker company. Who knows... I am not an insider... :)
 
#9 ·
For those of us who value the originality of the first run of Fisker's I think we can be assured that we now own one of a very limited number of vehicles. No matter how bad the new name might be, we own a true Fisker Karma - and we bought them for the right reasons. Hopefully we will continue to receive support from T.N.F. My guess is their value is only going to increase over time.
 
#19 ·
I really have nothing to add to the name discussion which hasn't been said. However, 2016 moves things out a bit. As an Karma owner, my interest at this point is support and parts for the Fisker Karma. If they upgrade parts, RDMs, Motor, Mufflers, etc. hopefully they will be "downward" compatible to some degree.

IMHO, Fisker lost all of the edge in technology in the last two years. The name may be the least of Wainxiang's worries. Tesla has moved ahead with a 691 HP, 0-60 3.2 second sedan with full battery range of 200-300 miles and full AutoPilot. The Chevy Bolt and others on the horizon as competition not only to the Atlantic EVer technology, but also Karma from BMW. BEV vehicles will move forward also. When Wainxiang releases the 'redone' Karma in 2016 and the Atlantic sometime following, they may find themselves far behind in a market that has evolved considerably over the last two years.
 
#20 ·
Fisker 2016 vs. Tesla P85D

Tesla has moved ahead with a 691 HP, 0-60 3.2 second sedan with full battery range of 200-300 miles and full AutoPilot.
Its a different league competing with Porsche, Lamborghini etc. ... targeting at a very different market segment of buyers. Do we really need such crazy "eco muscle cars" ?

Forbes shortly reported about this Tesla Model S P85D...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/amitcho...ons-to-insane-mode-in-the-tesla-model-s-p85d/

... funny video about the acceleration effect onto passangers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qFV5i8tBhs
 
#21 ·
SenseMaker.... The model P85D is not competing with the Porsche or Lambo., it targeted to family owners and is a 5-7 passenger Sedan. It incorporates two electric motors to achieve all wheel drive -- which was really a necessity for northern US and Norway, Tesla's 2nd largest market to the US. The resulting power was a by-product that Tesla seems to market quite well. I had a Model X Tesla on order for over a year, thus paying a lot of attention to Tesla products. AWD Teslas will be using Torque Sleep to drive at highway speeds using only the front smaller motor, thus extending the range to close the 285 miles at 65 mph.

I guess it could be called a "muscle car", however this Tesla way of showing what is possible with electric vehicles to overcome some of the "FUD" about the technology. One of the questions I get most often when I tell people the Karma is electric is "oh, so it isn't that quick". As with the Karma it is the torque that drives the car more so than the horse power. Demonstrating this power isn't muscle car like, but more of a means of dealing with naysayers about electric cars. At the end of the day, it is a Family Sedan. A great way of free advertising (not that its needed for sales) to destroy the "Prius myths" about electric vehicles. A brilliant strategy.
 
#22 ·
I agree that a lot of Karma's components are getting a bit long in the tooth and need to be refreshed, but the combination of the serial hybrid system, a great chassis, and a seamless regenerative braking system make the driving experience of the Karma pretty spectacular, IMHO. The serial hybrid design allows the car to drive like a BEV that is equipped with an inexhaustible battery. A BMW I8, by contrast has a mechanical drive between the engine and the back wheels and the electric drive only drives the front wheels.

My Karma feels exactly the same whether it is being powered by stored electrons, or by freshly made electrons. IMHO, that is a great piece of engineering and should be preserved, even when the individual components are updated.
 
#23 ·
I for one think the name isn't bad, I'm sure it stands for something like "Electric LUXury". It could have been much worse, like the "Wanxiang Karma", which I am sure is still better than a "Waning Karma". While the name doesn't sound super strong in the English Language, it may have an international appeal. In all due respect to Mr Fisker, when asked what kind of car am I driving, I have to repeat "Fisker" 5 times, , saying "Elux" may bring that number down to only twice.
 
#24 ·
Luxury or Light = Lux ?



I have thought that too, Steven. Might be that eLux stands for "Electric Luxury Car". If so, this might be understood by others as "snobby" (as not all know Latin where lux is the noun of "light") :

"Look at him, he must have a car which has the "luxury" in its name... what arrogant idiot."

Such an image in times of financial crisis and world recession can be of damage for a luxury car owner as he might be seen negatively by his customers... as not all live in USA where "demonstration of richness/wealthyness" has a positive image.

In Europe an ECar should have the image of environmental friendlyness and sustainability and not first of luxury.... as then its like a bumerang the masses and medias might say: "Look at these rich people... only they can afford excellent Electric cars." In my understanding the wrong way to make eVehicle more popular which is an urgent must...

Fisker or Tesla owners should see themselfs as kind of pioneers, who take the risks to invest lots of money in a real eCar and not a hybrid... to give the impulse via "viral marketing" to the masses and the normal consumer with lower budget makes pressure onto the automotive industries.

Jaguar even managed it with its concept car the C-X75 with a very similar concept like the Fisker to give the driver a total range of 900 kilometers... impressive and it shows, that its possible nowadays to expect from an eCar same what we know since many decades from gasoline motors... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG4gA-Do4SE

Pitty that the C-X75 didnt make it into series production... Jay Leno would have bought one quickly... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-m-AGiYT9I
 
#30 ·
More negative people talk now about eLux, more the chance to get back Fisker.... maybe ;-)

The marketing chiefs and market researchers of the new owner by sure have the social medias, such forums etc. ... on the radar... and they will keep their eyes and ears open over next days to see the reactions...

So more you guys as owners talk negatively about eLux... make comics about eLux, jokey YT videos over next days to rescue Fisker :dodgy:
 
#29 ·
Elux sucks. Really if they just came out with a better car and met their goals, the Fisker name could be revitalized. People like a comeback.

If they dump the Fisker name, then they're just a Chinese car manufacturer. I'm not sure how much demand there is for a $135K Chinese GT car.
 
#31 ·
Just sing it!

It is never a good idea to start with a high tone, ending with a low tone...

It's falling and depressing.

Fisker is a real name. One could not blame him, to use it as the companies name.

Stick with Fisker.
It has history!
 
#33 ·
Seriously though, this situation resembles the saab story more by the day.

This is not going to make the current fiskers more valuable, but rather make them depreciate even more....

Just like it was said on a smoking tire review, it won't be long before it's a sea of frustrated karma owners wanting to sell their vehicles. 25k karma's aren't far away......
 
#37 ·
I'm just trying to stay positive here... I don't care what they call it, as long as they start making them again. BTW, I am sure they don't have the rights to keep the Fisker name. After a little investigation, I don't think they will using Elux. It looks like the Elux.com domain name is owned by none other than Electrolux!!! I sincerely wish them good luck finding a good name that may not be taken.
 
#38 ·
... It looks like the Elux.com domain name is owned by none other than Electrolux!!! I sincerely wish them good luck finding a good name that may not be taken.
"Nothing sucks like an Electrolux!" Actual slogan from before "sucks" meant something different. :D

(My grandparents had an Electrolux canister vacuum that I ended up using until the 1990s—lost it in a move, like the nice Detecto doctor's balance scale I lost in a subsequent move—and it really did work quite well, although the Miele that I got in 2002 is better.)

Anyway, I wonder who owns the rights to some of the old names like Duesenberg (according to Wikipedia some company does own the name)...
 
#43 ·
Guys, Fisker is over. There will never be a Fisker produced anymore.
They grabbed some of the technology and promised to support the current owner base but these are just promises.

Fisker is really dead. Drive your car untill it stops. So take your losses and hope you will be able to drive it some more years.

For me this was one of the worst decisions I have ever made.

Steve
 
#45 ·
A couple of days ago on Dutch broadcasting Geert jan Tax was interviewed on business news radio. He is MD of Kroymans, importer for The Netherlands for Ferrari ,Aston Martin , Jaguar and Fisker - sold about 170 Fiskers in The Netherlands and usually well informed.
He stated that end of April "good news " was to be expected - also for current owners.
"Current owners will be taken care of in a very good way and some nice upgrades will become available" - The prototypes of the new model are driving around and we continue to be the distributor
for Fisker - end of quote . He also mentioned higher capacity batteries and a new driveline.
( this was posted a few days earlier but in the wrong thread)
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top