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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had a new Module replacement last week. Got my car back Friday. I put my car on my 220V charger yesterday at 9:30. It's now 1:45 PM the next day, and my charger is still showing "active". How long should I allow it to keep "balancing". Will it turn itself off eventually? Or, is 30 hours "obviously enough" and should I stop it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Disappointed that nobody responded to me above, but ... the saga continues, and I could still use some advice. My first charge after getting a new module went 36 hours -- constantly showing that charging was active before I interrupted it because I needed the car. When I started it, the CEL came on. But, when I got it over to Corey (my CSP) and restarted it, the light had gone out. He checked it and the new module was registering higher than the other cells, so he thought I should try to do more balancing.

I drove it and got down to 9 miles when it dropped to 0. That was about 4 (uphill) miles to my house, so I put on the Sport mode. However, for the first time ever, my car made an extra "chime" a mile from home and gave me Red Empty Battery level warning (but NOT the Reduced Performance" message). But, I got home ok.

I've had it on the charger now for 20 hours, and it is still showing that the car is drawing charge. Should I leave it? Or has that been long enough to try it again? Will the dumb thing be satisfied sooner or later and turn off the charger if I leave it long enough? Or, is it possible that it might keep trying to cell balance indefinitely? Just looking for some additional opinions.
 

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You may want to post on New Fisker or PM Harley Guy or PhillyFisker. It is highly technical, and most drivers would be able to accurately help.
 

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Sorry for any delay. I've been crazy busy. I will PM you my # to call me tomorrow. The module he put in shouldn't have been installed with a higher voltage than the remaining 14 modules. The balance strategy is such that when charging once any module hits peak voltage, charging stops and it then goes into balance mode to bring any stragglers up to peak very slowly. The difficulty is that the modules are series so how do you balance only a couple. It pulses voltage a little at a time to bring up the low ones. The problem with most of the CSP's is that they have no means to match the module to the rest of the battery at install so they just put the new module in and hope it balances. However if the one new module is higher state of charge than the other 14, it will stop charging first and leave the other 14 behind to balance which may take days, weeks or even never. I had a special 24v Lithium charger built (wasnt cheap but worth it)to do this on the bench and I match the new module to the measured voltages of the other packs within 10 milli volts and bam, balances immediately every time, no light and 100% on first drive cycle with no range drop.
I will talk over the phone tomorrow
Joe
 

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Ok let's see if we can figure out what was done . First off if the battery let to zero goes into the red that's not a good thing . The HV battery always keeps a % of battery that isn't used itS there to maintain systems that use the HV battery like the AC .
Did your CSP install a new module purchased from Fisker is the big question here . Myself and Joe I feel do the most battery repairs . I have a car in the shop now that I've spent at least 30 hours trying to repair the battery .
Anyway it's important that we know if it was a used module or a new one . I have good used modules that I install it saves money. It's possible that the battery has more then one bad module that's why the battery doesn't balance out . Joe and I both purchased a charger and power supply made to charge modules this way we can match the voltage of the new module with the ones in the battery . I've been told that it can take two weeks of charging and discharging the battery to balance it out.

When we build a battery the only way we have to test out the battery is actually install the battery into one of my demo cars and drive the car and charge the battery . I do this for at least five cycles that's usually long enough for the defective modules to show if they are useable or not . I then remove the battery and scrap the bad modules and the rest that aren't showing bad I use them in my next battery repair . A lot of times even after all that work ones we thought were good end up junk .
Like I said I have over 30 hours into a battery repair Fisker wanted me to replace the battery but I'm trying not too . The problem this battery has is two faults bad modules and a isolation fault . With that fault voltage is actually leaking into the battery . The battery sees this voltage and shuts the car down . The best way I can describe it is a dead short to ground . In this case it was 117 volts . So far I've replaced three modules the isolation fault is repaired and the car has been driven but I still think I have another module that has bad cell . This battery is also having a hard time to get to balance .Sorry I went off subject some but just wanted you to know it's one of the hardest repairs to get done right. A123 has test equipment that test the battery out of the car but I've been trying for three years to get this tester that can be shared by all the CSP dealers that repair batteries. Not ever tech do battery repairs .
We need to know some details about the module replacement. Right now continue driving and charging the battery .
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
First. Thanks, guys!

A. Yes, the module came from Fisker. Corey's not a slipshod guy. And, I didn't pay for it - the CSP program did. Corey was the Fisker tech for the Scottsdale Fisker Dealership before they stopped selling the cars.

B. So, I think you are both saying that (even if it's for days) there is balancing going on that is useful, and so I should just leave it plugged in whenever I'm not using it? Is that the best strategy for now?

C. Philly - would it be a good strategy to have him swap the new (#5) cell with #14 to put it "at the back"? (Is that possible?)
 

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You cant swap positive and negative modules without having a chart handy I'm not sure which is which .Swapping won't help plus the tear down time again who's going to pay for that .
 

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Can't swap 5 and 14 modules are either positive or negative 5 is a negative module and 14 is a positive . It wouldn't help anyway if you could swap them . I rarely have changed a number 5 but done a bunch of 14's and 7's and 12 forgot I have the the repair manuals on my iPad
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Ok. Was just a thought. And, if not 14, I just meant would it be wise to install new modules as far back in the series as possible?

But the "timely" question is ... do I leave it on the charger (as it has been for 24 hours)? The charger is still showing that it is active. Or, is it not really doing anything useful after 16 hours or so, and I'd be better off driving it and starting the charging cycle again?
 

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The correct method is to run the new module down to meet the voltage of the existing. This can only be done by removing it and hooking it up to my special charger which is also capable of discharging. You can monitor it and run it backwards to meet the other modules. You could be balancing it for weeks and may not get to the end cause you're trying to balance 14 modules instead of 1.
You must fully charge the pack before disassembly that way the majority of modules are high then you only need to balance 1 not 14 of them.
At this point you can keep trying that's about it.
Corey would have to reinstall the old module to run the battery up then reinstall the new one. Not a good scenario.
I'd offer him my internal module charger but I use it too often.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The module he put in shouldn't have been installed with a higher voltage than the remaining 14 modules. The balance strategy is such that when charging once any module hits peak voltage, charging stops and it then goes into balance mode to bring any stragglers up to peak very slowly. The difficulty is that the modules are series so how do you balance only a couple. It pulses voltage a little at a time to bring up the low ones.
Joe
Ok. I've read over this about 3 times, and I think I get it now. I think then that the first 36 hour charge helped a lot. I went from only getting 25 miles to getting all the way to 9 miles before I dropped to 0. I think I got the "empty battery" warning because I was 4 miles away and running the A/C strongly. (It's frickin' hot out here!!). Whereas, other times I had gotten down to 0 was months ago, it may not have been on (strongly). For a long time, I was not letting my car drop to 0 Stealth miles. I know pretty well these days how far many of the places I frequent are to my house (in Stealth miles), and I run Sport mode to keep me in the 20's until I reach a known location within 6-8 of my house.
 

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Keep the cycle going what I like to do is slowly run it down to zero . Charge the car to 50 miles then into sport mode at 20 miles leave in sport mode charge the car drive until 15 and repeat the process slowly dropping the mileage when you put into sport .
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Latest update. Finally got to drive around today. I got back into my neighborhood with 14 Stealth miles left. So, I just drove around to get it to 0. At 13, my CEL came on (same codes on my phone-based reader as ALWAYS - P1B99 P0A7B). But, the good news was it let me get all the way down to 5 Stealth Miles before it plummeted to 0. I've never seen Stealth miles 6-8 before (for more than 1 second). It even regen'd itself from 7 back to 8 (I live most of the way up a mountain). The last time the CEL came on, it turned itself off on the 2nd or 3rd start up (around 10 miles) after recharging. So, I'm going to see if it does that again. But, I think all my long charging/balancing is making it better! I was uphill of my house when it dropped to 0, so I was able to coast in hill mode all the way home. It didn't even turn on the ICE. No Empty Battery warning.
 

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I don't know if this will help in the understanding of the system but here goes.

We seem to have forgotten the term "trickle charge" these days what with intelligent battery chargers and inexpensive power supplies. Back in the day when silicon was pricey, you had the option of an expensive fast charger or a cheap trickle charger on anything high-end with a rechargeable battery.

Once any cell is fully charged, any current drawn (by its internal resistance) just gets emitted as heat.

Trickle chargers are simple power supplies, but crucially support a power transfer that is so low that once the battery is charged, can safely be emitted as heat without causing any problems.

Most modern chargers switch down into trickle mode once the battery is near full.

What happens when you switch out one cell in a battery and that cell is more charged than the others, and the charger can only charge the whole battery? Once the one cell is full, the charger has no option than to switch down to trickle charge to ensure that one doesn't overheat, but all the others will now charge at a snail's pace as a result, but if left long enough, the rest of the pack will approach full and a "balanced" state - but this could take days depending on the initial disparity.

Does that help?

Martin
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Actually, that's a very good explanation. Thank you. We shall see how it goes. Today I got it down to 0 again (had been going for a while without getting it that low, but wanting a full charge for the next day's activities). Same story. CEL came on at 13. Dropped from 5 to 0 instantly. Was 2 downhill blocks from home when it happened (drove around up there on purpose until it hit 0), so I coasted home. It's back on the charger, and we'll see if it goes into Cell Balance mode again.
 

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I don't know if this will help in the understanding of the system but here goes.

We seem to have forgotten the term "trickle charge" these days what with intelligent battery chargers and inexpensive power supplies. Back in the day when silicon was pricey, you had the option of an expensive fast charger or a cheap trickle charger on anything high-end with a rechargeable battery.

Once any cell is fully charged, any current drawn (by its internal resistance) just gets emitted as heat.

Trickle chargers are simple power supplies, but crucially support a power transfer that is so low that once the battery is charged, can safely be emitted as heat without causing any problems.

Most modern chargers switch down into trickle mode once the battery is near full.

What happens when you switch out one cell in a battery and that cell is more charged than the others, and the charger can only charge the whole battery? Once the one cell is full, the charger has no option than to switch down to trickle charge to ensure that one doesn't overheat, but all the others will now charge at a snail's pace as a result, but if left long enough, the rest of the pack will approach full and a "balanced" state - but this could take days depending on the initial disparity.

Does that help?

Martin
This is a very clear explanation. Thank you.
 

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Actually, that's a very good explanation. Thank you. We shall see how it goes. Today I got it down to 0 again (had been going for a while without getting it that low, but wanting a full charge for the next day's activities). Same story. CEL came on at 13. Dropped from 5 to 0 instantly. Was 2 downhill blocks from home when it happened (drove around up there on purpose until it hit 0), so I coasted home. It's back on the charger, and we'll see if it goes into Cell Balance mode again.
It wouldn't surprise me at this point you have another module that's bad.
 
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