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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A suggestion for Fisker and A123

As we heard in the webinar yesterday, the battery problem affects only about 1% of all Karma’s that have been delivered. Also, if you have already driven a few thousand miles, there’s a high chance your battery is okay. According to Fisker the problems usually appear fairly quickly (with the Consumer Report-car after just 200 miles).

The problem poses no danger to the car or the driver, it will only affect the life expectancy of the battery. The replacement program will take many months, as new batteries have to be produced for both existing cars and new cars. It may take until later this year before all batteries have been replaced. But, and this is where it gets interesting, it is not mandatory. If you are happy with the way your battery has been functioning, you can decide to keep it.

Deciding to keep the battery has several advantages:

- It saves the environment; the production of a large battery pack has quite an impact on the environment. And the environmental friendliness is one of the foundations of the Karma.
- It frees up new batteries for new Karma’s, thus not slowing down the delivery of new Karma’s and improving the chances of success for Fisker
- It saves A123 – a sympathetic company – a lot of money.

There’s also a disadvantage to keeping the old battery:

- With a new battery you will get an extra free ½ or ¾ year of battery life.

Despite of this last point I’m considering keeping my current battery (I’ve already driven 3400 miles without any battery problems). I wonder if Fisker and A123 can give us the extra nudge to do so (as it is in their advantage to have us keep our batteries if they are functioning well).

#1. Can we get a guarantee that if we keep the old battery and the problem occurs anyway after a few months over years, we will then be able to get the battery replaced?

# 2. Can we, instead of a battery now, get a substantial discount on an improved battery in a few years time? I heard Fisker will – in about two years time – start selling improved batteries (more capacity? lighter?). With battery prices coming down those batteries might even be cheaper.

It would be nice if Fisker could offer us, the early adopters, this incentive, which according to me could be beneficial to everyone involved (Fisker, A123, owners).
 

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I think all your points are quite valid. I had the same thought yesterday that my battery seems to be functioning well. My concern is that I am getting 35-40 miles of range which seems to be in the ballpark for many other owners. Does the battery defect only effect the lifespan of the battery or does it have some impact on performance? I certainly would have no problem, if performance is not effected, keeping my current battery for now. It is a win..win situation if the company would add some incentive like a discounted upgrade when one becomes available. I would definitely consider leaving well enough alone for the time being.

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I think the range you are getting is what can be expected on average, and is probably not the result of any battery issue. As we all know, it depends on driving style, temperature, geographical terrain and road (highway or city). At the moment I'm getting 41 miles with pretty constant highway speeds of 70 mph, at 65 Fahrenheit. At 50 mph and with 70-80 Fahrenheit I'd probably make it to 50 miles.
 

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I recd a call after posting a serial number question to a123, the gist of which is that the swap promise will be va,I'd at any point under warranty that the issue occurs ( full shut down, no restart) like the consumer reports car. They are trying to match serial nu,bets to installed batteries now, but are concerned about a "rush" on batteries and are hoping for a pace over months and to more accurately target the bad units, although, he restated, anyone with an issue will be taken care of...
 

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I agree - I think having a discount on a battery upgrade, say in 3-5 years would be better for everyone including Fisker and A123. If Musk's Law (haha, I know that'll offend some people) holds, then battery capacity should increaase 7-8% per year per unit of weight, so in 5 years time, we'd have a battery that weighs the same 606lbs but could potentially hold 30kWh instead of the 20 we currently have, giving us "up to" 75 miles of stealth range which would be great! And presumably, battery prices would continue to fall, maybe reaching the $100-150/kWhr level.
 

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Dutch said:
A suggestion for Fisker and A123

As we heard in the webinar yesterday, the battery problem affects only about 1% of all Karma’s that have been delivered. Also, if you have already driven a few thousand miles, there’s a high chance your battery is okay. According to Fisker the problems usually appear fairly quickly (with the Consumer Report-car after just 200 miles).

The problem poses no danger to the car or the driver, it will only affect the life expectancy of the battery. The replacement program will take many months, as new batteries have to be produced for both existing cars and new cars. It may take until later this year before all batteries have been replaced. But, and this is where it gets interesting, it is not mandatory. If you are happy with the way your battery has been functioning, you can decide to keep it.

Deciding to keep the battery has several advantages:

- It saves the environment; the production of a large battery pack has quite an impact on the environment. And the environmental friendliness is one of the foundations of the Karma.
- It frees up new batteries for new Karma’s, thus not slowing down the delivery of new Karma’s and improving the chances of success for Fisker
- It saves A123 – a sympathetic company – a lot of money.

There’s also a disadvantage to keeping the old battery:

- With a new battery you will get an extra free ½ or ¾ year of battery life.

Despite of this last point I’m considering keeping my current battery (I’ve already driven 3400 miles without any battery problems). I wonder if Fisker and A123 can give us the extra nudge to do so (as it is in their advantage to have us keep our batteries if they are functioning well).

#1. Can we get a guarantee that if we keep the old battery and the problem occurs anyway after a few months over years, we will then be able to get the battery replaced?

# 2. Can we, instead of a battery now, get a substantial discount on an improved battery in a few years time? I heard Fisker will – in about two years time – start selling improved batteries (more capacity? lighter?). With battery prices coming down those batteries might even be cheaper.

It would be nice if Fisker could offer us, the early adopters, this incentive, which according to me could be beneficial to everyone involved (Fisker, A123, owners).
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 

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If my math is right, if there are only 650 +/- cars delivered @ 1% we're only talking about 6 cars that would even qualify for anything, am I missing something?


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9xclubchamp said:
If my math is right, if there are only 650 +/- cars delivered @ 1% we're only talking about 6 cars that would even qualify for anything, am I missing something?
The 1% figure is for "cars where enough cells are bad enough that the battery fails immediately". The number of batteries with "at least one cell bad enough to make a difference over 5 years" is probably pretty close to 50% (assuming half the batteries came out of the one facility, and half out of the other).
 

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Thanks for the clarification that's a big difference


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?cblysd
 

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Luv your proposal Dutch for the early adopters!!!
 
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