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The print review is a bit more tepid: http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Fisker-Karma-Range-extender-saloon/258541/
 

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Here is a new one

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/fisker-karma-video-review-feature/

David Harris Fisker Automotive[hr]
Here is a new one

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/fisker-karma-video-review-feature/

David Harris Fisker Automotive
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
DHarris said:
Here is a new one

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/fisker-karma-video-review-feature/

David Harris Fisker Automotive[hr]
Here is a new one

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/fisker-karma-video-review-feature/

David Harris Fisker Automotive
Same one...
 

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Is it me or did the written review seem overly critical?
 

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SoCalGuy said:
Is it me or did the written review seem overly critical?
It did seem a bit negative, especially when it came to the GM engine:

"...the petrol engine kick in, so blaring is its noise it’s greatest talent is for shattering your tranquillity. Internally this unworthy ex-Pontiac engine is known as ‘the dragon’, and they don’t mean it kindly."

Fisker really needs to make a clear statement on the engine noise. Are they fixing it or not? What exactly is in the roadshow cars? Something between the February muffler and what they hope to achieve? Will early adopters really get a free fix if this is the case?

-Brian
 

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brian said:
SoCalGuy said:
Is it me or did the written review seem overly critical?
It did seem a bit negative, especially when it came to the GM engine:

"...the petrol engine kick in, so blaring is its noise it’s greatest talent is for shattering your tranquillity. Internally this unworthy ex-Pontiac engine is known as ‘the dragon’, and they don’t mean it kindly."

Fisker really needs to make a clear statement on the engine noise. Are they fixing it or not? What exactly is in the roadshow cars? Something between the February muffler and what they hope to achieve? Will early adopters really get a free fix if this is the case?

-Brian
Agreed - that is my main gripe with the Karma. All the other stuff I can get over (styrofoam bumper, slow touchscreen, etc).
 

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brian said:
Will early adopters really get a free fix if this is the case?
If the noise problem still exists with the final production cars - still not sure whether the cars at the European press day fall in that category - and the problem gets fixed after a few months, then Fisker should have a recall for the cars of early adopters and get this thing fixed. We are paying enough.

I learned today that the Valmet-factory was closed over the last few weeks for holiday (this is Europe after all) and that on Monday production will resume.
 

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A Fisker rep called me today to ask if I had any questions since the Roadshow will be here on Tuesday. I asked about the noise issue and whether there was any truth in the rumor that Fisker is working to further improve it and provide free retrofitting. All she could say was that they were continuing to look into it.

-Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Dutch said:
brian said:
Will early adopters really get a free fix if this is the case?
If the noise problem still exists with the final production cars - still not sure whether the cars at the European press day fall in that category - and the problem gets fixed after a few months, then Fisker should have a recall for the cars of early adopters and get this thing fixed. We are paying enough.

I learned today that the Valmet-factory was closed over the last few weeks for holiday (this is Europe after all) and that on Monday production will resume.
the odd thing is that also here in the European reviews there seems to be a different opinion on the noise issue. Curious if they had just one car or several (will try and check). A few reviews also spoke about preproduction cars...
 

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jeroen said:
the odd thing is that also here in the European reviews there seems to be a different opinion on the noise issue. Curious if they had just one car or several (will try and check). A few reviews also spoke about preproduction cars...
It seems that both the US and European press have focused on the noise issue as their main point of criticism on the engineering of this car. Otherwise, they have generally praised the car for handling and driving qualities and (with plenty of qualifications and caveats) the car's performance. And Fisker has known about the noise issue for, at least, six months. So I think it is a fair bet that the production cars will have some sort of fix for this. While Fisker could be more forthcoming on these issues, let's not work ourselves into a tizzy about this with no new information.

I would suggest that our logical next move would be to go back to the dealers and check out their demo cars that should be post-preproduction to see if there is appreciable difference between those cars and the ones we drove. Then we can make better informed decisions about whether or not the noise is a deal breaker.

-- Fab.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Fabulist said:
It seems that both the US and European press have focused on the noise issue as their main point of criticism on the engineering of this car. Otherwise, they have generally praised the car for handling and driving qualities and (with plenty of qualifications and caveats) the car's performance. And Fisker has known about the noise issue for, at least, six months. So I think it is a fair bet that the production cars will have some sort of fix for this. While Fisker could be more forthcoming on these issues, let's not work ourselves into a tizzy about this with no new information.

I would suggest that our logical next move would be to go back to the dealers and check out their demo cars that should be post-preproduction to see if there is appreciable difference between those cars and the ones we drove. Then we can make better informed decisions about whether or not the noise is a deal breaker.

-- Fab.
Agreed. Although I did also see some less positive reviews and a lot of 'Pretty good for a first car' and new company.

But for this price point I must be honest and say I'm not looking for a pretty good first attempt but for a first class car... Hope they will deliver...
 

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175KW Generator

And just for some perspective, the engine-generator set in the Karma is rated at 175KW and it looks like this:



Outside the Karma, a 175KW Motor-Generator looks like this:



I don't think it is all that unreasonable that when putting out the full 175KW, the generator gets somewhat loud, IMHO.

-- Fab
 

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Its a single phase DC generator, if I am not mistaken, so it is going to be a lot smaller than a diesel driven 3-phase AC generator, but I like the pictures, being a former generator mechanic. Thats about the size of a 100KW for the US Army.
 

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kabalah70 said:
Its a single phase DC generator, if I am not mistaken, so it is going to be a lot smaller than a diesel driven 3-phase AC generator, but I like the pictures, being a former generator mechanic. Thats about the size of a 100KW for the US Army.
@kabalah70: This is not my forte, but I did not think the notion of "phase" applied to DC. Also, here is a single phase AC 175KW generator that is the same size as the one in the photo, so I am not sure if single v. three phase makes a significant difference in size and weight. (Click on the photo below for the generator data sheet).



In any event, my original, and only, point with this comparison was that the generator in the Fisker is called upon to put out a lot of power on certain occasions and noise may not be disproportionate to the task. It does not make the noise pleasant, to be sure, but it is also not necessarily a sign of bad quality, but it may be in part the limitation of the technology.

-- Fab.
 

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I agree completely that 175kw is a lot of power and from all the videos I have seen so far, the noise inside is quite acceptable as it is a 'sport' car. My buddy just bought a Nissan GT-R and another friend of mine has a Nissan 370Z when they floor it the noise inside the cabin is almost deafening. The Karma seems much quieter than that. As for the noise outside, well, that just makes people turn their heads and look at the beautiful car more. As for phasing, it does affect size as a 175KW 3-phase generator is producing 3 times the electricity that a single phase 175KW generator is, as it is producing 175kw on all three phases. As for a DC generator, the original power is rectified AC, so you are right that there is no phase. The generator itself is only a small portion of the generator set itself so, when looking at the set, the difference between the size required for a 1 or 3 phase would be hard to detect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Another dutch review out. They referred to the engine noise as:
"loud thumping screaming sound, like a motorcycle drove up next to us" (carros nl)

Where as the telegraaf newspaper was okay with the noise coming from the engine.
Could be just a difference in opinion, but they did drive different cars judging from the photographs (telegraaf Black, Carros Silver)
 

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Here it is

http://www.carros.nl/autotests/31875-fisker-karma-truly-unique/

My dutch is getting rusty though - generally what has been said before, good steering /ride quality, but overall a less positive review. Other than the noise Jeroen mentioned they complain also of a lack of sensation of speed (no sensation of speedkick...)
 

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svp6 said:
Here it is

http://www.carros.nl/autotests/31875-fisker-karma-truly-unique/

My dutch is getting rusty though - generally what has been said before, good steering /ride quality, but overall a less positive review. Other than the noise Jeroen mentioned they complain also of a lack of sensation of speed (no sensation of speedkick...)
The Google translation of the concluding sentence seemed pretty positive:

"Endorsement us what we already said Henrik Fisker himself: the Karma looks like a sports car, but in truth it was Meant as a superior commuter. Maximum range was no issue and Will Be, Because It Is not. And the way it does it is truly unique. then also with a Dutch, BPM from free-price of 101,745 euros, we are happy to connect to."

Can you provide a better translation of this sentence? Sounds like they are "connecting to" (I guess joining in) Henrik Fisker's quote, but it is not really clear from the machine translation. BTW, the Yahoo-BabelFish translation was much worse, no wonder Yahoo is becoming irrelevant very rapidly.

-- Fab.
 
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