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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I called in today, as I do periodically, to check on production and see how things are coming along. Before today, my car was due to be built next week. Now, pushed back another month! Explanation given was that actual production did not begin until mid-September. In the last month they have built the 37 demo cars shipping to the U.S. prior to that all they built was pre-production vehicles to ship around the world. This is direct from Fisker.

I am number 635 or something close to that. After going over the simple math of how there is no way my car can be built on November 28th like I am told, I just said why you don't you be straight with me and tell me I'll have it by next June. There was no answer.

Call and get an update on your vehicle. Even forgetting all the bad news about range and MPG and acceleration, our cars are still a long way off.

Best Regards,
adam
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
doug said:
Thebreadman said:
Explanation given was that actual production did not begin until mid-September.
Why couldn't they let you know that in mid-September?
At the beginning of September, my car was due to be built middle of September. Then it was beginning of October. Then it was November 1. Now it is November 28.

And before September, there were other production days stated. Now we know they were all lies. I hate to be harsh, because I do know what startups are like; I started my own company. This just seems outright insincere though.
 

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Thebreadman said:
I called in today, as I do periodically, to check on production and see how things are coming along. Before today, my car was due to be built next week. Now, pushed back another month! Explanation given was that actual production did not begin until mid-September. In the last month they have built the 37 demo cars shipping to the U.S. prior to that all they built was pre-production vehicles to ship around the world. This is direct from Fisker.

I am number 635 or something close to that. After going over the simple math of how there is no way my car can be built on November 28th like I am told, I just said why you don't you be straight with me and tell me I'll have it by next June. There was no answer.

Call and get an update on your vehicle. Even forgetting all the bad news about range and MPG and acceleration, our cars are still a long way off.

Best Regards,
adam
That's so Fisker! When they told me last week my date (Oct. 20th) was still good, they had to know it was impossible! My info came direct from Fisker also. My order number is around 1000. I'll check again Monday. Looks like I'll get a 2013 model.

BillyO
 

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This information - that production did not start until mid-September and that in that month only 37 demo cars were built - does not correspond with information from other reliable sources that in mid-September already hundreds of cars were sitting at the factory. Is this information directly from Fisker und from a dealer (who maybe isn't up to date)?
 

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Yeah, my dealer earlier in the week said the computer still showed my production date was Sept 26th. (order #650-something). However, she said the computer had no information on weather it had actually been built. No VIN # was showing up, so it's possible... seems unlikely at this point tho.

-Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Dutch said:
This information - that production did not start until mid-September and that in that month only 37 demo cars were built - does not correspond with information from other reliable sources that in mid-September already hundreds of cars were sitting at the factory. Is this information directly from Fisker und from a dealer (who maybe isn't up to date)?
This information is direct from Fisker. Call and see what info you get.
 

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Thebreadman said:
I hate to be harsh, because I do know what startups are like; I started my own company. This just seems outright insincere though.
You know... Fisker Automotive has been around for what, 4 years now? They're no longer a "startup". They're well past that. Now they're just a company who's failed to produce a product.

-Brian
 

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Lets all maintain perspective. Believe me, I am as anxious as anyone to receive my car. I have car #7 on order. In fact, everyone in front of me in line (#1-6) came in after me, got their spots because Henrik, Barney, Alan, Dale, etc., gave up their spots in line. l am the longest-duration cash-deposit Fisker order/customer in the world, having put my $5,000 Signature Edition deposit down in October 2007 before even the clay model was completed. 4 years now. And most of you will still get your car the same month as me. Because I am in California, many of you will actually get yours before me. You don't hear me complaining, do you? No, because I am a realist.

Patience is key with a new car company. This is not as simple as cranking out a new video game, implementing new enterprise software, or building a one-off custom-built house. Recall that GM introduced and showed the Chevy Volt at the Detroit Auto Show in January 2007, a full year before the Karma was shown at the same show in January 2008. Volt made it to the streets this year. So, even with all GM's resources, it took them 4 years. Was Fisker optimistic? Yes. Did the economy slow them down? Yes. Did the expansion of the model line slow down Karma? Yes. The cars will come, and when they do, I believe they will come with enough volume to satisfy all customers with existing orders, and a whole bunch more. We are all early adopters, believers of the PHEV model, and huge supporters of the company. Let's try to remain that way.

And just because they have another month delay, that doesn't mean they can't fulfill thousands of orders once they are up and running at full capacity. I think you shouldn't despair and assume the delays will be forever, nor cumulative. Clearly, they are working the bugs out of the manufacturing system. And clearly the factory-HQ-Marketing-Dealership line-up is weak at communicating, but I think they are all trying to be sincere and are not "lying" to you... they are more likely just overly optimistic and unwilling to admit there are things beyond their control. Knowing how auto manufacturing works, my belief is that once they get things going, then cars can be produced at a fairly rapid rate (Valmet has capacity for over 60,000 cars a year, and has cranked out Porsche Caymans and Boxters at higher rates than Karma for years). So getting the first 3000 Fiskers produced on behalf of deposit/order-holding customers won't be hard , ONCE they get the system working. The devil is in the details when you need to get to high-volume production, and the last bit of software tuning, etc. must be right, and must be tested on pre-production cars, before they can turn on full manufacturability.

I believe the 100 signature cars may have been built in August, and the 37 demo cars were built in September, so the comments discussed above regarding production dates and volumes may not be inconsistent. Breadman's initial post said that before the 37 demos there were per-production cars. Those are likely the cars that Dutch mentions as the ones previously sitting at the factory.

So, let's all keep time in perspective, and enjoy our wonderful new cars....soon!
 

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Wow Dave the car guy, I'm impressed. Great post. I am #72 on the Signature Series and am also eagerly awaiting delivery. I think that what you say is all a plausible explanation. Of course it could all be confirmed and all this speculation stopped if a Fisker representative could just keep us informed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Dave_Car_Guy said:
Lets all maintain perspective. Believe me, I am as anxious as anyone to receive my car. I have car #7 on order. In fact, everyone in front of me in line (#1-6) came in after me, got their spots because Henrik, Barney, Alan, Dale, etc., gave up their spots in line. l am the longest-duration cash-deposit Fisker order/customer in the world, having put my $5,000 Signature Edition deposit down in October 2007 before even the clay model was completed. 4 years now. And most of you will still get your car the same month as me. Because I am in California, many of you will actually get yours before me. You don't hear me complaining, do you? No, because I am a realist.

Patience is key with a new car company. This is not as simple as cranking out a new video game, implementing new enterprise software, or building a one-off custom-built house. Recall that GM introduced and showed the Chevy Volt at the Detroit Auto Show in January 2007, a full year before the Karma was shown at the same show in January 2008. Volt made it to the streets this year. So, even with all GM's resources, it took them 4 years. Was Fisker optimistic? Yes. Did the economy slow them down? Yes. Did the expansion of the model line slow down Karma? Yes. The cars will come, and when they do, I believe they will come with enough volume to satisfy all customers with existing orders, and a whole bunch more. We are all early adopters, believers of the PHEV model, and huge supporters of the company. Let's try to remain that way.

And just because they have another month delay, that doesn't mean they can't fulfill thousands of orders once they are up and running at full capacity. I think you shouldn't despair and assume the delays will be forever, nor cumulative. Clearly, they are working the bugs out of the manufacturing system. And clearly the factory-HQ-Marketing-Dealership line-up is weak at communicating, but I think they are all trying to be sincere and are not "lying" to you... they are more likely just overly optimistic and unwilling to admit there are things beyond their control. Knowing how auto manufacturing works, my belief is that once they get things going, then cars can be produced at a fairly rapid rate (Valmet has capacity for over 60,000 cars a year, and has cranked out Porsche Caymans and Boxters at higher rates than Karma for years). So getting the first 3000 Fiskers produced on behalf of deposit/order-holding customers won't be hard , ONCE they get the system working. The devil is in the details when you need to get to high-volume production, and the last bit of software tuning, etc. must be right, and must be tested on pre-production cars, before they can turn on full manufacturability.

I believe the 100 signature cars may have been built in August, and the 37 demo cars were built in September, so the comments discussed above regarding production dates and volumes may not be inconsistent. Breadman's initial post said that before the 37 demos there were per-production cars. Those are likely the cars that Dutch mentions as the ones previously sitting at the factory.

So, let's all keep time in perspective, and enjoy our wonderful new cars....soon!
No, the 100 Signature cars were not built in August. There were no customer cars built before mid-September. Again, this is direct from Fisker.

From March until late August Fisker was producing only test vehicles that were pre-production. Up until late August there was still work being done on various aspects of the car. I expect this to mean the muffler and various software in the car, although specifics were not given.

At peak production, Fisker is expecting Valmet to produce 300 cars a week. At peak production. I have not been able to pin them down on how many are being produced currently. Suffice it to say, they are not at peak production.

In other news, dealers will be receiving two demo vehicles. They should be receiving one any day now and a second (at some future date). Across the country the two vehicles will be the same at every dealer, and they are as follows:

Ecochic; Silver Wind with Glacier tritone interior
Ecosport; Shadow with Canyon tritone interior

I am not sure which model is to be delivered first. My dealer in Cleveland, OH has not received theirs yet, but they tell me it is scheduled to arrive this coming Monday.

Best Regards,
adam
 

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Thebreadman said:
I called in today, as I do periodically, to check on production and see how things are coming along. Before today, my car was due to be built next week. Now, pushed back another month! Explanation given was that actual production did not begin until mid-September. In the last month they have built the 37 demo cars shipping to the U.S. prior to that all they built was pre-production vehicles to ship around the world. This is direct from Fisker.
@Adam: I know that communicating with Fisker can be frustrating at times, but the information you got directly contradicts what Fisker told its investors and potential investors earlier this month. Puffing or exaggerating for marketing purposes is one thing, but out and out lying to investors is extremely serious and would lead to serious consequences and I would very much doubt that anyone on Fisker's board would take such a huge risk just when the company is on the verge of getting its first cars out and starting its growth. So I would think that someone at Fisker must have misunderstood the situation or miscommunicated with you, at least I hope that is the case. I spoke to Fisker as recently as Wednesday and they confirmed my production date.

Since Fisker generally operates in Customer Cone of Silence mode, we just have to wait and see what happens next. I really really really hope that the information you got was not the whole story.

-- Fab.
 

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Thebreadman said:
At peak production, Fisker is expecting Valmet to produce 300 cars a week. At peak production. I have not been able to pin them down on how many are being produced currently. Suffice it to say, they are not at peak production.
I just spoke to my dealer, who accessed the Karma order database and confirmed that my production date has been moved from Oct. 20 to Nov. 14. Since this represents yet another real time slippage (i.e. my production date has been "next month" for the past 3 months), I asked him if they were actually building ANY cars. He said that from all of the non-Signature Edition orders they have placed (75+, I believe), there were 4 cars with VIN numbers assigned, which would indicate that production had started on those 4 cars. He also confirmed that two of my friends have November build dates assigned.

Looks like it is very early days for true production vehicles, and they are still expecting to ramp up fast, which means we are likely to experience some more date slips.

Dennis
 

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Could those cars with changed dates be ones with the tri-tone? We know that those got delayed 4-6 weeks due to an issue with the leather, but supposedly the black interior cars were on-schedule.... supposedly.

-Brian
 

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brian said:
Could those cars with changed dates be ones with the tri-tone? We know that those got delayed 4-6 weeks due to an issue with the leather, but supposedly the black interior cars were on-schedule.... supposedly.

-Brian
My car does not have a tri-tone interior. It seems that all builds have been delayed, considering how few cars in my dealer's order book have VIN numbers assigned.

Dennis
 

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If this slippage applies across the board, we are potentially going to run into yet another problem and that is the $7500 clean car tax credit. I don't know if that rebate would still be available if the delivery date gets pushed into 2012.

I checked just a few days ago and my dealer confirmed that the production date for my car was still October 12 but no VIN had been assigned so the date may be bogus. The promised delivery date was "Late November", so depending on the shipping arrangements, I could conceivably get my car in my hands around that time frame if they have a massive shipment in late November, but given the history here, that level of logistical coordination is unlikely. Besides, we are still waiting for CARB certification so I would not even be able to take delivery of the car now even if it were available.

The vigil continues ....


-- Fab.
 

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Dave_Car_Guy said:
Lets all maintain perspective. Believe me, I am as anxious as anyone to receive my car. I have car #7 on order. In fact, everyone in front of me in line (#1-6) came in after me, got their spots because Henrik, Barney, Alan, Dale, etc., gave up their spots in line. l am the longest-duration cash-deposit Fisker order/customer in the world, having put my $5,000 Signature Edition deposit down in October 2007 before even the clay model was completed. 4 years now. And most of you will still get your car the same month as me. Because I am in California, many of you will actually get yours before me. You don't hear me complaining, do you? No, because I am a realist.

Patience is key with a new car company. This is not as simple as cranking out a new video game, implementing new enterprise software, or building a one-off custom-built house. Recall that GM introduced and showed the Chevy Volt at the Detroit Auto Show in January 2007, a full year before the Karma was shown at the same show in January 2008. Volt made it to the streets this year. So, even with all GM's resources, it took them 4 years. Was Fisker optimistic? Yes. Did the economy slow them down? Yes. Did the expansion of the model line slow down Karma? Yes. The cars will come, and when they do, I believe they will come with enough volume to satisfy all customers with existing orders, and a whole bunch more. We are all early adopters, believers of the PHEV model, and huge supporters of the company. Let's try to remain that way.

And just because they have another month delay, that doesn't mean they can't fulfill thousands of orders once they are up and running at full capacity. I think you shouldn't despair and assume the delays will be forever, nor cumulative. Clearly, they are working the bugs out of the manufacturing system. And clearly the factory-HQ-Marketing-Dealership line-up is weak at communicating, but I think they are all trying to be sincere and are not "lying" to you... they are more likely just overly optimistic and unwilling to admit there are things beyond their control. Knowing how auto manufacturing works, my belief is that once they get things going, then cars can be produced at a fairly rapid rate (Valmet has capacity for over 60,000 cars a year, and has cranked out Porsche Caymans and Boxters at higher rates than Karma for years). So getting the first 3000 Fiskers produced on behalf of deposit/order-holding customers won't be hard , ONCE they get the system working. The devil is in the details when you need to get to high-volume production, and the last bit of software tuning, etc. must be right, and must be tested on pre-production cars, before they can turn on full manufacturability.

I believe the 100 signature cars may have been built in August, and the 37 demo cars were built in September, so the comments discussed above regarding production dates and volumes may not be inconsistent. Breadman's initial post said that before the 37 demos there were per-production cars. Those are likely the cars that Dutch mentions as the ones previously sitting at the factory.

So, let's all keep time in perspective, and enjoy our wonderful new cars....soon!
I think most who have made deposits would understand any of the situations you bring up. They just need to tell us what's going on.
How many cars have they built?
What's the current production rate?
What problems are they dealing with?
These are all questions they can answer today. I can understand why my production date can't be an exact day. I just want to know what's happening now. I get the feeling there is something suspect because of the lack of information.

Billy O
 

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Fabulist said:
I checked just a few days ago and my dealer confirmed that the production date for my car was still October 12 but no VIN had been assigned so the date may be bogus.
My October 20 production date was also confirmed last week. The dealers now have a twice-weekly conference call with Fisker HQ. This week they were told that "some dates may change" and to check the ordering system for their customer orders. The ordering system was inaccessible yesterday, and when my sales rep checked today, my production date had moved to November 14.

I assume the factory was recasting the production scheduled yesterday when the order system was not available to the dealers. You should check with your dealer on Monday to see if your date has changed - it probably has.

Dennis
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Fabulist said:
Thebreadman said:
I called in today, as I do periodically, to check on production and see how things are coming along. Before today, my car was due to be built next week. Now, pushed back another month! Explanation given was that actual production did not begin until mid-September. In the last month they have built the 37 demo cars shipping to the U.S. prior to that all they built was pre-production vehicles to ship around the world. This is direct from Fisker.
@Adam: I know that communicating with Fisker can be frustrating at times, but the information you got directly contradicts what Fisker told its investors and potential investors earlier this month. Puffing or exaggerating for marketing purposes is one thing, but out and out lying to investors is extremely serious and would lead to serious consequences and I would very much doubt that anyone on Fisker's board would take such a huge risk just when the company is on the verge of getting its first cars out and starting its growth. So I would think that someone at Fisker must have misunderstood the situation or miscommunicated with you, at least I hope that is the case. I spoke to Fisker as recently as Wednesday and they confirmed my production date.

Since Fisker generally operates in Customer Cone of Silence mode, we just have to wait and see what happens next. I really really really hope that the information you got was not the whole story.

-- Fab.
Fab,

I hope you are right that I was miscommunicated to. However, the information passed to me was double checked by someone high up in the PR department. Again, I hope you are right for all our sakes, but unfortunately I think my information is correct.

I would suggest everyone call on Monday or sometime next week and get an update for themselves. I think what you will find is all non-Signature vehicles have slipped another month. I am not sure about Signature cars.

Best Regards,
adam
 

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Thebreadman said:
I would suggest everyone call on Monday or sometime next week and get an update for themselves. I think what you will find is all non-Signature vehicles have slipped another month. I am not sure about Signature cars.
@Adam: Thank you for the update and I will be calling my dealer on Monday without fail. I think the crucial date at this point is not so much the date the car is built but the date the car is put on the ship bound to the USA. As long as the car is built in time to make the next shipment, it really makes no difference if it was the day before or two weeks before. I think the shipment date is what will determine the delivery date at this point. I have heard a couple of different versions of this, but the next shipment is supposedly two or three weeks away from leaving Finland. This will put the cars in New York in mid-late November with delivery shortly afterwards. I think this is the date we should be pressing Fisker for as we all reach out to them next week.

-- Fab
 
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