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RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

My understanding is that lithium ion batteries cannot be submerged in saltwater because it causes them to overheat and explode. So, given the trauma to which these cars were subjected by the hurricane, is it really any surprise they caught fire?

Word to the wise: DO NOT drive your Karma into the ocean!!
 

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RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

Weird Fishes said:
My understanding is that lithium ion batteries cannot be submerged in saltwater because it causes them to overheat and explode. So, given the trauma to which these cars were subjected by the hurricane, is it really any surprise they caught fire?

Word to the wise: DO NOT drive your Karma into the ocean!!
Yes, also, if you've been submerged for 30 minutes and have drowned, be sure to get out of the vehicle as quickly as possible....
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

It might actually be the ICE related components that caught fire (as appears to have happened in the other Karma fires). Hopefully Fisker will investigate and report on the results.
 

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RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

I find the reporting sensational junk food. the reporter writes "The vehicle, despite only being in limited production, has already experienced numerous fires due to equipment failures and electrical shorts." -- numerous fires? (I guess 2 is a number)...

More accurate reporting would have been to say "Two vehicles have experienced fires, the second occurrence was caught in time to identify its cause as a cooling fan failure, which led to a recall addressing the root cause."

Reporters... do your job. Report accurately, not hyperbolically.
 

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RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

Yes sensational reporting by a snarky website that's been down for over 24 hours by its own flood issues. Hope it wiped their whole archives.

Really doug why would you think this would be related to the two fires from recalled cooling fan short?

Too bad there weren't 16 Tesla Model S parked there too then we could have had a scientific experiment across lithium battery brands!

Doug you say you support Fisker as well as Tesla but you're always first to post the bad news?
 

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RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

doug said:
It might actually be the ICE related components that caught fire (as appears to have happened in the other Karma fires). Hopefully Fisker will investigate and report on the results.
The previous two fires occurred in fair weather, immediately following a drive, and left 2 burned Karmas with completely intact, functional batteries.

According to the report on these fires, the that were sitting in port 'exploded' after being submerged in seawater. That would suggest to me that the seawater damaged the batteries and caused the explosions/fires. It seems highly unlikely that the most recent fire(s) were caused by parts related to the internal combustions engines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

I wouldn't actually call Jalopnik journalists and they have been snarky wrt EVs in general. But they claim to have an exclusive on this report, so that's the source we had at the moment.
 

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RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

From the MNL thread: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=240033#p240033
turbo2ltr
I've been following the storm as I'm from LI and there are a lot of reports of fires. In queens,ny 80-100 homes burned to the ground. Leveled. I thought it odd too how you can have such devastating fires in a flood.

 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

Weird Fishes said:
According to the report on these fires, the that were sitting in port 'exploded' after being submerged in seawater. That would suggest to me that the seawater damaged the batteries and caused the explosions/fires. It seems highly unlikely that the most recent fire(s) were caused by parts related to the internal combustions engines.
We don't yet know that the battery packs were involved. "Exploded" sounds a bit like sensationalism to me, but there is a gas tank there. ICE cars catch fire fairly regularly due to electrical shorts. In fact there were at least a few car fires (from a regular ICE cars) due to this storm.

Here you have a bunch of Karmas parked close together. It may have been only one car that started the fire and the high winds spread it to the others. [hr]
pythagoras said:
Really doug why would you think this would be related to the two fires from recalled cooling fan short?
I didn't say it was related to the cooling fan fires, except to say that such a fire is possible from components in normal ICE cars. It doesn't necessarily have to be related to the battery, as the previous two fires have shown. Of course it's because the Karma has a battery that these fires get attention.

pythagoras said:
Too bad there weren't 16 Tesla Model S parked there too then we could have had a scientific experiment across lithium battery brands!
I too would be very interested to see how a Model S holds up to being submerged in saltwater. Back in 2007 Tesla described the Roadster battery pack as having immersion sensors that should offer some protection in this kind of situation. I assume that carried over to the Model S, but don't know for sure. Any car submerged in saltwater is a total loss, though.

pythagoras said:
Doug you say you support Fisker as well as Tesla but you're always first to post the bad news?
Don't shoot the messenger. Can't say there's been a plethora of good news lately.
 

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RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

I see your point, doug. I'm now hoping it was one car that caught fire and spread to all the other cars. In any case, this was a freakish scenario--one that most Karma owners would never, ever experience.
 

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RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

Weird Fishes said:
I see your point, doug. I'm now hoping it was one car that caught fire and spread to all the other cars. In any case, this was a freakish scenario--one that most Karma owners would never, ever experience.
For what it's worth, even a car that's been dunked in un-polluted fresh water is at a fair amount of risk of being ruined (from mold in the carpeting, shorts in wiring, and so on). Soaking for hours in salt water is normally entirely fatal. (Although in a total surprise, a Toyota HiLux aka 4Runner survived a 12 hour sea soak in a Top Gear torture test ... not that you'd really want to drive it much afterward.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

Certainly a freak thing, but seriously, Fisker can't catch a break.
 

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RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

Id like to know whos brilliant idea it was to leave the vehicles right next to the small puddle called atlantic ocean, surely everyone there knew that they will get soaked days before the storm arrived...
Ive only been at the port once few years ago and I knew thats going to happen...
 

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RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

FYI in one of the pictures you can see other Karmas that were perfectly fine and only a few feet from the burnt Karmas - my guess is that the saltwater penetrated one battery pack and ignited, causing other nearby Karmas to catch fire.

It is also worth pointing out that while the Karma does have a gas tank, it is highly unlikely that the Karmas at port had any gas in them (I don't think any car manufacturers ship their cars with gas in the tank - usually the dealers put gas in).
 

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RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

doug said:
Don't shoot the messenger. Can't say there's been a plethora of good news lately.
But it is interesting that you chose to post about the fire and didn't post, say, the article about 48 happy Karma owners getting together for a drive in Santa Monica this past weekend.

http://www.hybridcars.com/news/fisker-hosts-karma-owners-rally-santa-monica-57832.html

 

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RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

SoCalGuy said:
It is also worth pointing out that while the Karma does have a gas tank, it is highly unlikely that the Karmas at port had any gas in them (I don't think any car manufacturers ship their cars with gas in the tank - usually the dealers put gas in).
Theres fuel in every cars tank in the port, otherwise you wouldnt be able to move them in or out of the ships they arrive or manouvre them in the port.
Theres restrictions on the amount of fuel a single car can have by the shipping comppany, theres also a limit on the charge the batteries have under transport.

---

Heres one theoretical scenario:

The cars in the port have not had the fan recall done yet, it was to be done prior delivery.
So one car decides to ignite after the salt water corrodes and shorts its electrical systems.
Next the fire punctures the fuel tank, wich naturally will cause the now burning fuel spread above the water igniting anything it comes in touch with.

---
 

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RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

Raven said:
Id like to know whos brilliant idea it was to leave the vehicles right next to the small puddle called atlantic ocean, surely everyone there knew that they will get soaked days before the storm arrived...
Ive only been at the port once few years ago and I knew thats going to happen...
That was my thinking too. Why didn't they relocate all the cars before the storm rolled in? ALL the cars, not just the karmas? That's a LOT of money down the drain. Even the cars that didn't burn are likely ruined.

dennis said:
But it is interesting that you chose to post about the fire and didn't post, say, the article about 48 happy Karma owners getting together for a drive in Santa Monica this past weekend.
Can't see how that relates? Are people now required to post only certain types of content? Perhaps he didn't know about that? The pic is from your own photobucket, so clearly you have better knowledge of the event than someone who doesn't have a karma and didn't attend. Can't see how it relates to the topic anywho.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
RE: And more Karma Fires, 16 exploded

dennis said:
doug said:
Don't shoot the messenger. Can't say there's been a plethora of good news lately.
But it is interesting that you chose to post about the fire and didn't post, say, the article about 48 happy Karma owners getting together for a drive in Santa Monica this past weekend.
:rolleyes:
Neither did most any other car blog as of yet. Since 48 happy Karma owners were actually there, isn't there already a thread here on FiskerBuzz? Is it really that interesting that I didn't post about it given the relative merit of the stories? Don't lose your objectivity to fanboyism.[hr]
Raven said:
Heres one theoretical scenario:

The cars in the port have not had the fan recall done yet, it was to be done prior delivery.
So one car decides to ignite after the salt water corrodes and shorts its electrical systems.
Next the fire punctures the fuel tank, wich naturally will cause the now burning fuel spread above the water igniting anything it comes in touch with.
I don't see how the fan recall would have any bearing on these fires (unless one of the cars had been recently driven). Saltwater could cause a short regardless.

Also do we actually know that the fan issue caused that first Texas fire. Seems like a reasonable assumption, but I don't know that Fisker ever made a statement about that. They originally implied the owner was responsible and some here suggested that they had evidence he was a conman.
 
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