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Old 03-04-2017, 04:11 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ira View Post
Note this post from Bert Yetman last Spring: My Karma was just returned after having the 70 pt inspection, a new 12V battery, two new front tires, and 530.

"The first night it would only charge to 4 miles, and I had a Hi Voltage battery light, which went out after a restart. It came on several times during the day on startup. Ran on ICE all day.

"The second night it charged to 24 miles, and again the Hi Voltage light illuminated. I tried a hard reboot. Light went out and I drove off with the ICE running. While waiting for a red light, I went to Park. On the green light, the car would not come out of park, except for neutral. Holding up traffic, I turned the emergency flashers on. The car will not shut off with flashers on. Called 911. The police arrived and lit flares around the Karma. I shut off the flashers and shut off the car.

"After 2 minutes I restarted and the lights were out, so I left and went straight to the CSP. I waited while they reflashed (2.5 hours). Then they said they couldn't get things corrected and the HiVoltage light was still on. They gave me a loan car Thursday. No callback on Friday or Saturday. Waiting."
911, stalling and flares as well as the lack of propulsion aka blinking ready indicates significant issues. I could be wrong because I don't run that software but if I did, I would care about being stranded in an intersection and having to call 911 (emergency services in USA).

It is also well documented that BL530 removed battery balancing from the high voltage pack which is necessary in order to maintain the health of that pack. Karma never was upfront about this and many individuals were adversely effected by the removal of pack balancing by having to pay Karma/or their CSP's for module replacements due to the removal of pack balancing. This was purportedly added back in with the BL535. Was there any consolation for owners that had no issue prior to 530 but between 530 and 535 (where balancing was removed?) who knows....

These are all my own musings and just what I have observed over the course of the past few months (years?) with regards to why someone would say something is unsafe.

YMMV

Last edited by PowerSource; 03-04-2017 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:17 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Default TOM Module Upgrade

Don't get me wrong.

We all had the occasions that the car acted somehow strange after the shop did updates. But this is not related just to KA but also happened to us during FA warranty.

And we all took even more:
- burning mirror motors
- burning fans
- defective battery modules
- fans running all night
- broken exhaust pipes
...

But explicitly naming 535 dangerous and describing not doing something about it to be a criminal action, seems to be far beyond being fair.

I'm not the advocate for KA, but I was interested in real facts to call it dangerous. ... just to take my own actions, in case I would feel the need.

In fact, if one expresses the car being dangerous, naming the company in charge and still driving the car ??? This individual will risk to go to jail, if something will happen and someone would be hurt... don't you think so?
... because he knew better!
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Old 03-05-2017, 12:59 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Don't get me wrong.

We all had the occasions that the car acted somehow strange after the shop did updates. But this is not related just to KA but also happened to us during FA warranty.

And we all took even more:
- burning mirror motors
- burning fans
- defective battery modules
- fans running all night
- broken exhaust pipes
...

But explicitly naming 535 dangerous and describing not doing something about it to be a criminal action, seems to be far beyond being fair.

I'm not the advocate for KA, but I was interested in real facts to call it dangerous. ... just to take my own actions, in case I would feel the need.

In fact, if one expresses the car being dangerous, naming the company in charge and still driving the car ??? This individual will risk to go to jail, if something will happen and someone would be hurt... don't you think so?
... because he knew better!
FA does not exist KA does; FA bought back a ton of cars because of its issues; where as KA has taken 0 responsibility for the issues they have caused. They have released faulty software and will not even admit there are issues.

Blinking ready does exist, its a safety issue, it should be fixed; KA will will not admit there is this issue.

Removal of battery balancing is criminal because they were knowingly bricking battery packs (through their own software) and charging people to fix them. That is textbook fraud.
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:13 AM   #44 (permalink)
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@PowerSource, are you still working on an upgraded battery replacement pack? If so, how's it coming along?
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:01 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ufojoe View Post
@PowerSource, are you still working on an upgraded battery replacement pack? If so, how's it coming along?

yes we sent a blast via our mailing list a few months back. The best way to keep up with our progress is to subscribe to our mailing list.

We are currently in beta and have vehicles in the wild testing with our pack. Once we complete this, we will then make the required changes and offer a small quantity of traction packs to the public.
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Old 03-07-2017, 03:16 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Looking back to all updates and call backs
can one say BL520 has been the most reliable than?
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:07 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I just installed the TOM device in my car earlier today. It went as smooth as silk. Quality hardware and good instructions. When complete, it looks like a factory installation.

Looking forward to experimenting with it to check performance and mileage. I drive about 1.5 hours a day in this car, so it won't take long to take advantage of the features.

A thoughtful inclusion was a jumper connector, so if needed you can remove the TOM and plug in the jumper to return the car to stock. Nice work @PowerSource

By the way, for those interested, I downgraded to 520 before installing the TOM for the sake of reliability.

Now I'm ready for the infotainment upgrade
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Old 06-07-2017, 07:02 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PNWkarma View Post
I just installed the TOM device in my car earlier today. It went as smooth as silk. Quality hardware and good instructions. When complete, it looks like a factory installation.

Looking forward to experimenting with it to check performance and mileage. I drive about 1.5 hours a day in this car, so it won't take long to take advantage of the features.

A thoughtful inclusion was a jumper connector, so if needed you can remove the TOM and plug in the jumper to return the car to stock. Nice work @PowerSource

By the way, for those interested, I downgraded to 520 before installing the TOM for the sake of reliability.

Now I'm ready for the infotainment upgrade
Any updates on your experiences?
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:57 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Yes, I just turned 3000 miles on my TOM unit. I'm beginning to get a better feel of it's capabilities. I don't drive focused on mileage and still enjoy putting my foot down here and there. Roughly once a week I'll drive for 3-4 hours in one day, so heavy use of the ICE.

First of all I should say that a major reason for me purchasing the TOM unit is because I cannot get to work and back on a single battery charge. Before TOM I was able to get about 36 mpg. This was just using the sport and stealth modes as efficiently as I could.

Over these 3000 miles I've averaged 42 mpg, which is a significant improvement. I account most of this to the ability to control WHEN the vehicle charges. I hope @PowerSource will chime in, but I've found the most efficient way to drive is by using ER mode just on the flat and downhills. ER mode uphill does not build miles, but it does run the ICE and so slows the rate of discharge, but I turn the ER When traffic conditions allow, I can hold the throttle just about right and get a charge rate of 15-20kw, but it is a little tricky to hold this steady. You need to keep a little pressure on the throttle to tell the system you have an increase in demand. When stopped you only get about 8 or 9 kw. Downhill is great and it readily charges at over 30kw even without hill mode. The ability to turn the ICE on and off is really nice when in the city. I was always embarrassed by the little rattly 4cyl engine holding rpm at the stop lights. A thing of the past now. Well almost... a few times I've found that the car won't 'let go' of ER mode when switching back to Stealth. I'm not sure if this is the TOM unit or if it's just inherent in the vehicle. Perhaps @PowerSource can program in a repeat signal via the canbus to make sure it's in stealth? It's very rare that this happens, but the only cure I've found is to shut the car off and restart it (a'la Windows PCs). No hard reset required.

The downgrade to 520 also means that when in hill mode, the 'HILL' status is kept on the screen, which blocks the Stealth, Sport, EV, ER mode indicator, which is not an issue if you only have Stealth and Sport, but occasionally one can get lost with all the paddle selections - mostly just when concentrating on traffic.

There have been no reliability issues at all, other than the normal personality and mood swings that the Karma has.

If I had the ability to make any improvements, they would be:

1) Make the ER charge more aggressively. It seems like the ICE is barely trying and could do much more. I would prefer that the ER simply took the ICE to it's optimal rpm and charged at full charge rate. Not only would I be able to run the ICE less, I think it would further improve mileage.
2) Fix the holding in ER mode. This may not be Tom's fault, but I like the idea of a hard on-off.
3) Make the charge rate less dependent on throttle position. I find it hard when travelling in a line of traffic to do this, because people are inherently bad at holding a steady speed. In turn, I find myself paddling the throttle more than I'd like and the ICE is constantly coming on, then off, then on, then off. Open freeways are easy to hold a steady charge rate.
4) Remove the "HILL' domination of the screen.

All in all, I'm extremely happy. Because of my daily driving distances I can really use the advantages of the TOM unit. I suspect that those who run on just battery power would not see the benefit. I hope this helps.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:19 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PNWkarma View Post
Yes, I just turned 3000 miles on my TOM unit. I'm beginning to get a better feel of it's capabilities. I don't drive focused on mileage and still enjoy putting my foot down here and there. Roughly once a week I'll drive for 3-4 hours in one day, so heavy use of the ICE.

First of all I should say that a major reason for me purchasing the TOM unit is because I cannot get to work and back on a single battery charge. Before TOM I was able to get about 36 mpg. This was just using the sport and stealth modes as efficiently as I could.

Over these 3000 miles I've averaged 42 mpg, which is a significant improvement. I account most of this to the ability to control WHEN the vehicle charges. I hope @PowerSource will chime in, but I've found the most efficient way to drive is by using ER mode just on the flat and downhills. ER mode uphill does not build miles, but it does run the ICE and so slows the rate of discharge, but I turn the ER When traffic conditions allow, I can hold the throttle just about right and get a charge rate of 15-20kw, but it is a little tricky to hold this steady. You need to keep a little pressure on the throttle to tell the system you have an increase in demand. When stopped you only get about 8 or 9 kw. Downhill is great and it readily charges at over 30kw even without hill mode. The ability to turn the ICE on and off is really nice when in the city. I was always embarrassed by the little rattly 4cyl engine holding rpm at the stop lights. A thing of the past now. Well almost... a few times I've found that the car won't 'let go' of ER mode when switching back to Stealth. I'm not sure if this is the TOM unit or if it's just inherent in the vehicle. Perhaps @PowerSource can program in a repeat signal via the canbus to make sure it's in stealth? It's very rare that this happens, but the only cure I've found is to shut the car off and restart it (a'la Windows PCs). No hard reset required.

The downgrade to 520 also means that when in hill mode, the 'HILL' status is kept on the screen, which blocks the Stealth, Sport, EV, ER mode indicator, which is not an issue if you only have Stealth and Sport, but occasionally one can get lost with all the paddle selections - mostly just when concentrating on traffic.

There have been no reliability issues at all, other than the normal personality and mood swings that the Karma has.

If I had the ability to make any improvements, they would be:

1) Make the ER charge more aggressively. It seems like the ICE is barely trying and could do much more. I would prefer that the ER simply took the ICE to it's optimal rpm and charged at full charge rate. Not only would I be able to run the ICE less, I think it would further improve mileage.
2) Fix the holding in ER mode. This may not be Tom's fault, but I like the idea of a hard on-off.
3) Make the charge rate less dependent on throttle position. I find it hard when traveling in a line of traffic to do this, because people are inherently bad at holding a steady speed. In turn, I find myself paddling the throttle more than I'd like and the ICE is constantly coming on, then off, then on, then off. Open freeways are easy to hold a steady charge rate.
4) Remove the "HILL' domination of the screen.

All in all, I'm extremely happy. Because of my daily driving distances I can really use the advantages of the TOM unit. I suspect that those who run on just battery power would not see the benefit. I hope this helps.
Thanks for the feedback..

From our experience the quickest and easiest way to bank miles is to turn cruise control on as often as possible and keep the RPM's synchronous. It is possible to obtain a higher charge rate by manually manipulating the throttle.

One other benefit you do get with 520 is stationary charging, where you have the ability to park the vehicle and put it in ER mode and generate miles away from a charge station- at up to 10kw. This is not possible with 53x.

With regards to engine continuing to run in Stealth mode this is something that has to do with the vehicle architecture. For example there are certain systems that require a "warm up" time like the exhaust catalyst or the EVAP canister etc. In certain circumstances there will be a latency because the Bosch Engine Control Module has a certain algorithm that it must run, with the engine on, if certain conditions are met.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWkarma View Post
1) Make the ER charge more aggressively. It seems like the ICE is barely trying and could do much more. I would prefer that the ER simply took the ICE to it's optimal rpm and charged at full charge rate. Not only would I be able to run the ICE less, I think it would further improve mileage.
We would love to do this but there are certain limitations with regards to the architecture of the vehicle; from our testing we found that the currently implemented algorithm balances efficiency, performance (i.e. peak demand and throttle response) and NVH. We will look into your suggestion and see if it is possible to further increase the rate without diminishing any of the above attributes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWkarma View Post
2) Fix the holding in ER mode. This may not be Tom's fault, but I like the idea of a hard on-off.
This is due to the way the ECM runs its "test" modes. Even without TOM you will have the same issue if you open the gas cap or you turn on sport mode and the exhaust catalyst has to warm up among other things. See this thread.

https://www.fiskerbuzz.com/forums/13-...html#post10910



Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWkarma View Post
3) Make the charge rate less dependent on throttle position. I find it hard when travelling in a line of traffic to do this, because people are inherently bad at holding a steady speed. In turn, I find myself paddling the throttle more than I'd like and the ICE is constantly coming on, then off, then on, then off. Open freeways are easy to hold a steady charge rate.
We optimized the charge rate for performance- meaning that if you jump on the throttle all available power will go towards powering the vehicle instead of to the battery pack. Feedback we got from beta testers was to not have any latency between jumping on the accelerator in any of the modes. Which mode are you seeing this on off on off behavior? Stock sport mode behaves this way. Personally I have not seen this behavior in any of our modes unless you are throttling 44/45 electric miles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWkarma View Post
4) Remove the "HILL' domination of the screen.
Yep, this is legacy UI that has always been present on the car. I.e if you are in hill mode it will always show hill regardless of if you are in stealth or sport. Will look into finding a way to change the stock functionality. The good thing is if we do find a way, we can exchange TOM's, takes about 30 seconds to swap them out.
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