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Old 01-29-2019, 11:09 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PowerSource View Post
You are running BL535 with a TOM20 unit. Looks like Andrew at Frank Kent did not downgrade you to the 520 software.
yes, we determined that the other day with Luc when i spoke to him.
Andrew will send me the laptop once he is back from vacation and we will get it back to 520. as far as i know, it was on 520 when i gave it to them, but somehow got reflashed to 535 during other repairs.

anyway, i hope to have this done sometime in feb.

can you opine on my other questions posed in the previous post about how the car is supposed to act once the systems are correctly installed?
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Old 01-29-2019, 11:30 PM   #92 (permalink)
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yes, we determined that the other day with Luc when i spoke to him.
Andrew will send me the laptop once he is back from vacation and we will get it back to 520. as far as i know, it was on 520 when i gave it to them, but somehow got reflashed to 535 during other repairs.

anyway, i hope to have this done sometime in feb.

can you opine on my other questions posed in the previous post about how the car is supposed to act once the systems are correctly installed?

EV Mode
This mode allows 2012 Fisker Karma owners to sustain state of charge (45mi and below) at any point during their drive. Think of this mode as the current Sport mode at 26mi with the ability to hold all the way up to 45 ideal miles.

An indicator as shown in the image above will appear when battery has less than 10mi (sorry it says KM but you get the picture ) remaining in EV mode.
This indicator suggests switching to Sport or ER mode because EV mode is no longer optimal at this point.

ER Mode
This mode allows 2012 Fisker Karma owners to rebuild EV range at any state of charge up to 45mi. For
example, if the owner has 10 ideal miles the PowerSource TOM will allow them to rebuild the battery over
their drive to a maximum of 45mi. TOM limits rebuilding battery to 45mi because it is not optimal to charge
the battery at high currents when it is nearly full.

Driving tips for maximizing performance and efficiency
• The engine sound will be louder in ER mode during acceleration because it has to transition between charging the battery to accelerating the vehicle.
• Cruise control at any speed less than 85mph on reasonably flat roads is the most efficient condition for ER mode to rebuild battery range.
• ER mode is slower than Sport mode because it has to charge the battery and the added transition time between charging and accelerating the vehicle. When quick acceleration is desired, use Sport mode instead of ER.
• When driving at high speeds (80mph) up steep hills or mountains, use Sport mode instead of ER mode because the power demand will exceed the engine’s output. Using ER mode in this condition will make the engine rev louder because it has to simultaneously accelerate the vehicle and charge the battery.
• To determine if certain road condition demands more power than the engine can generate, drive in Sport mode with battery less than 26mi remaining and see if the vehicle borrows (consumes) electric range.

Last edited by PowerSource; 01-29-2019 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:09 AM   #93 (permalink)
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thanks for that.

how about these scenarios:

i am driving on the highway with 40 miles of battery range, and travelling at an average of 85mph. can i engage EV and expect it to remain at that level? will the engine be overtaxed trying to maintain that speed and maintain SOC at 40?

i am driving on the highway with 26 miles of battery range, and travelling at an average of 85 mph. can i engage ER and expect to build battery range and maintain my average speed, or will this be too much for the ICE unit to handle?
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:49 AM   #94 (permalink)
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thanks for that.

how about these scenarios:

i am driving on the highway with 40 miles of battery range, and travelling at an average of 85mph. can i engage EV and expect it to remain at that level? will the engine be overtaxed trying to maintain that speed and maintain SOC at 40?

i am driving on the highway with 26 miles of battery range, and travelling at an average of 85 mph. can i engage ER and expect to build battery range and maintain my average speed, or will this be too much for the ICE unit to handle?

If you are simply cruising at 85mph it will build up the miles in ER mode (to max 45). If you are traveling at 85mph with 40 miles of range it will hold that range. There are scenarios where it will dip into the reserve (i.e. heavy acceleration, parasitic load, hills etc); but generally speaking yes.


Your best way to build miles (or hold them in EV mode) is to activate cruise control as it is far better at modulating constant throttle than a human's right foot. You can "bank" the most amount of miles by using the cruise.




I will let others chime in with their experiences.
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Old 01-30-2019, 11:58 PM   #95 (permalink)
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If you are simply cruising at 85mph it will build up the miles in ER mode (to max 45). If you are traveling at 85mph with 40 miles of range it will hold that range. There are scenarios where it will dip into the reserve (i.e. heavy acceleration, parasitic load, hills etc); but generally speaking yes.

Your best way to build miles (or hold them in EV mode) is to activate cruise control as it is far better at modulating constant throttle than a human's right foot. You can "bank" the most amount of miles by using the cruise.

I will let others chime in with their experiences.
That’s consistent with my experience over the last two years of using my TOM20.

I would only add that even in EV mode, if you are driving at a steady pace using cruise control on a fairly flat road, your EV range will actually increase, although not nearly as quickly as it would in ER mode.

I only tend to use the ER mode in slow traffic, or for stationary charging, because, for reasons already explained, the car’s response to power demand is somewhat muted in ER mode. All other times, I use either Stealth or EV modes.
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Old 01-31-2019, 06:41 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Thatís consistent with my experience over the last two years of using my TOM20.

I would only add that even in EV mode, if you are driving at a steady pace using cruise control on a fairly flat road, your EV range will actually increase, although not nearly as quickly as it would in ER mode.

I only tend to use the ER mode in slow traffic, or for stationary charging, because, for reasons already explained, the carís response to power demand is somewhat muted in ER mode. All other times, I use either Stealth or EV modes.
I drive my Karma approximately 2 hours per day, 30k miles so far on the TOM20 and I completely concur with @Fabulist I've mapped out the charging abilities in various modes in all kinds of conditions and have come to the same conclusion as Fab, which is EV and Stealth are the two favorite modes and ER when I need a quick recharge, either stationary or on the freeway at constant speed (but not during fluctuating traffic).
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Old 02-02-2019, 03:23 PM   #97 (permalink)
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What is involved with installation on the TOM module?
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Old 11-27-2019, 09:32 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Default The downgrade to 520

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Originally Posted by PNWkarma View Post
Yes, I just turned 3000 miles on my TOM unit. I'm beginning to get a better feel of it's capabilities. I don't drive focused on mileage and still enjoy putting my foot down here and there. Roughly once a week I'll drive for 3-4 hours in one day, so heavy use of the ICE.

First of all I should say that a major reason for me purchasing the TOM unit is because I cannot get to work and back on a single battery charge. Before TOM I was able to get about 36 mpg. This was just using the sport and stealth modes as efficiently as I could.

Over these 3000 miles I've averaged 42 mpg, which is a significant improvement. I account most of this to the ability to control WHEN the vehicle charges. I hope @PowerSource will chime in, but I've found the most efficient way to drive is by using ER mode just on the flat and downhills. ER mode uphill does not build miles, but it does run the ICE and so slows the rate of discharge, but I turn the ER When traffic conditions allow, I can hold the throttle just about right and get a charge rate of 15-20kw, but it is a little tricky to hold this steady. You need to keep a little pressure on the throttle to tell the system you have an increase in demand. When stopped you only get about 8 or 9 kw. Downhill is great and it readily charges at over 30kw even without hill mode. The ability to turn the ICE on and off is really nice when in the city. I was always embarrassed by the little rattly 4cyl engine holding rpm at the stop lights. A thing of the past now. Well almost... a few times I've found that the car won't 'let go' of ER mode when switching back to Stealth. I'm not sure if this is the TOM unit or if it's just inherent in the vehicle. Perhaps @PowerSource can program in a repeat signal via the canbus to make sure it's in stealth? It's very rare that this happens, but the only cure I've found is to shut the car off and restart it (a'la Windows PCs). No hard reset required.

The downgrade to 520 also means that when in hill mode, the 'HILL' status is kept on the screen, which blocks the Stealth, Sport, EV, ER mode indicator, which is not an issue if you only have Stealth and Sport, but occasionally one can get lost with all the paddle selections - mostly just when concentrating on traffic.

There have been no reliability issues at all, other than the normal personality and mood swings that the Karma has.

If I had the ability to make any improvements, they would be:

1) Make the ER charge more aggressively. It seems like the ICE is barely trying and could do much more. I would prefer that the ER simply took the ICE to it's optimal rpm and charged at full charge rate. Not only would I be able to run the ICE less, I think it would further improve mileage.
2) Fix the holding in ER mode. This may not be Tom's fault, but I like the idea of a hard on-off.
3) Make the charge rate less dependent on throttle position. I find it hard when travelling in a line of traffic to do this, because people are inherently bad at holding a steady speed. In turn, I find myself paddling the throttle more than I'd like and the ICE is constantly coming on, then off, then on, then off. Open freeways are easy to hold a steady charge rate.
4) Remove the "HILL' domination of the screen.

All in all, I'm extremely happy. Because of my daily driving distances I can really use the advantages of the TOM unit. I suspect that those who run on just battery power would not see the benefit. I hope this helps.
I installed the TOM on my Fisker in March and absolutely love the flexibility and control it gives me for longer drives. We did a test to determine the current software before installation and concluded it was BL520, but somewhere along the line the software has been updated and I started to notice that my odometer was clocking at about a 7/1 ratio. I took it to the dealer in Vancouver Canada, and they traced the problem to the TOM unit and PwrSource confirmed that: ďThis symptom only exist if your are using TOM20 for Fisker Karma with BL530 or BL535. The speed algorithm has been changed in BL530 & BL535.Ē

The dealer has been very accommodating and is willing to downgrade the necessary modules but needs to know which files to install. Ken at PwrSource must be incredibly busy because he has twice in the past two weeks committed to email me ASAP ďa list of what software version each module should have under BL520Ē but has yet to do so. Meanwhile my Fisker remains with the dealer.

Does anyone who has been through this happen to have a list of what software version each module should have under BL520 for the TOM to work? I really donít want to go back to the two mode limitations.
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Old 11-28-2019, 06:46 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Update: Ken at PwrSource did get back to me so I now have the info I need.
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Old 12-20-2019, 01:43 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Default whick TOM do i need

Hi i was wondering which one i would need...current software...

Hardware : PV
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thats the 510 i believe.....?
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