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Old 02-24-2013, 11:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default DC Fast charging

Ok, new guy here ... I did a search but couldn't dig up anything relevant.

I've been reading about this DC Fast charging technology that Blink and Chargepoint are rolling out - particularly here in California.

$64,000 question: is this charging technology compatible with the Karma?
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:05 AM   #2 (permalink)
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No......
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ufojoe View Post
No......
To elaborate a bit, the Karma's on-board charger is limited to 3300W (220V/15A) and will not accept any more current or higher voltage. We are hoping that Fisker will consider introducing an upgraded charger to increase the charging capacity to 6600W (220v/30A) which is generally available at public charging stations at home chargers. DC Charging is going to require a new on-board charger and a new connector, which seems very unlikely as an upgrade but may be incorporated into future models.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Fabulist View Post
To elaborate a bit, the Karma's on-board charger is limited to 3300W (220V/15A) and will not accept any more current or higher voltage. We are hoping that Fisker will consider introducing an upgraded charger to increase the charging capacity to 6600W (220v/30A) which is generally available at public charging stations at home chargers. DC Charging is going to require a new on-board charger and a new connector, which seems very unlikely as an upgrade but may be incorporated into future models.
To elaborate further, part of the problem is that there's no agreed upon standard for "Level 3" charging like there is for Level 2. This includes fast-charge standards on connector shape, data transfer, voltage, amperage, etc. Since Fisker is sold globally this becomes an even larger issue.

The DC fast chargers that ChargePoint installed, and I believe Blink's too, follow the proposed CHAdeMO standard. CHAdeMO was developed in Japan by a consortium of participants. There are about 1000 charging stations in Japan but only a couple dozen in the USA.

Practically the only car in the US that can use these chargers is the Nissan LEAF. (The Mitsubisi MiEV, the Fiat e500 and a couple others can as well but there are very few running around). You cannot charge a Tesla, a Volt, a Fisker, etc using these chargers.

SAE J1772, which currently has the standard for Level 1 and Level 2 charging has a competing Level 3 proposal, as do several other interested parties. Until a common standard comes out there's going to be fragmentation, and companies like Tesla doing proprietary solutions, but it will be very difficult for there to be a useful fast-charge infrastructure.

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Old 11-11-2015, 03:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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So we have been working on a CHAdeMO solution for the Karma and would like to solicit your feedback on a few items. If there is enough interest I guess we will create a new thread with a poll.

Three potential locations:
1. Behind the rear license plate- requires rear fascia to be modified, plate will fold down to reveal charge port
2. Front grill- requires driver side grill to be modified
3. Inside the trunk- requires trunk to be open while charging, minimal modifications and much easier install

For us obviously #3 is the most preferable as it is the easiest to install but what do the owners think?

AC charging with CHAdeMO

One of the biggest requests that fills our inbox is faster AC charging, the issue with this is the Karma will require some major modifications to fit a new OBCM and it probably is cost prohibitive. Where the OBCM currently sites is not the most convenient place and it gets blasted by dirt, grime, salt etc as it is very exposed to the elements. In order to package another OBCM here it would have to be tested extensively and that takes a lot more resources with minimal gains.

What we are proposing is using the CHAdeMO port as your AC charger via an off-board rectifier. So basically the AC-DC conversion will be done outside the vehicle then sent to the vehicle over CHAdeMO. This makes life a lot easier. Downside is you won't be able to take advantage of the 6.6kw EVSE's publicly.

What is the appetite for this if any?
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have a seiman's 220/240 30 Amp. Charges car in 4.5 hours when zero battery.
Raleigh NC has pubic charging for electric cars and is 220/240 and probably 30 amps and charges my ELR fine at same speed as my at home charger .
I have yet to try fisker with that charger at Public parking garage.
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I have a seiman's 220/240 30 Amp. Charges car in 4.5 hours when zero battery.
Raleigh NC has pubic charging for electric cars and is 220/240 and probably 30 amps and charges my ELR fine at same speed as my at home charger .
I have yet to try fisker with that charger at Public parking garage.

Yes that is probably using the existing OBCM on the vehicle (3.3kw power rating which is not the full rating of your EVSE). A Karma takes around 4.5+ hours to charge from empty on a 240 16A circuit @ ~18kw usable. I believe an ELR has a smaller pack so it may be quicker.

Most public EVSE's in the US are [email protected] so around 6kw so this reduces the time down to 3 hours if your on-board charger can accept this rating.

Our CHAdeMO system reduced this down to <30 mins for a 80% charge.

Our TOM unit reduces this down further where you only need to charge up 5-10 miles (1-2kw) as the generator keeps the battery pack close to topped off while driving or rebuilding the pack at <12kw.
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Old 11-12-2015, 11:38 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PowerSource View Post
So we have been working on a CHAdeMO solution for the Karma and would like to solicit your feedback on a few items. If there is enough interest I guess we will create a new thread with a poll.

Three potential locations:
1. Behind the rear license plate- requires rear fascia to be modified, plate will fold down to reveal charge port
2. Front grill- requires driver side grill to be modified
3. Inside the trunk- requires trunk to be open while charging, minimal modifications and much easier install

For us obviously #3 is the most preferable as it is the easiest to install but what do the owners think?

AC charging with CHAdeMO

One of the biggest requests that fills our inbox is faster AC charging, the issue with this is the Karma will require some major modifications to fit a new OBCM and it probably is cost prohibitive. Where the OBCM currently sites is not the most convenient place and it gets blasted by dirt, grime, salt etc as it is very exposed to the elements. In order to package another OBCM here it would have to be tested extensively and that takes a lot more resources with minimal gains.

What we are proposing is using the CHAdeMO port as your AC charger via an off-board rectifier. So basically the AC-DC conversion will be done outside the vehicle then sent to the vehicle over CHAdeMO. This makes life a lot easier. Downside is you won't be able to take advantage of the 6.6kw EVSE's publicly.

What is the appetite for this if any?
I like the "under the rear license plate" location. Interesting that this is where I put gas it my '69 GTO!
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Old 11-12-2015, 12:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I like the "under the rear license plate" location. Interesting that this is where I put gas it my '69 GTO!

The idea was inspired by vehicles that had gas fillers behind the license plate frame. That is probably the cleanest location and it makes the most sense as virtually everyone backs into charging spots with the Karma. A spring loaded license plate frame would allow easy access to the port while charging.

The only negative is that the rear fascia will have to be modified to fit the CHAdeMO port.
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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@PowerSource - I love the idea of faster charging. Will your team be testing the impacts (if any) of faster charging on the performance and reliability of the HV battery pack? Asking since there isn't any actual or theoretical long term reliability ratings on a faster charging solution with the Karma battery pack.

I also like the idea of the charge port behind the license plate. Modifying the rear fascia doesn't sound too ominous unless you mean literally replacing the existing rear fascia with an entirely new fascia.

While we're at it, can we add a rear handle inside the trunk roof to make it easier to close the trunk without touching the paint? The handle like the Volt has is what I have in mind.
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