Karma Automotive Appoints Barny Koehler President-China - Fisker Buzz Forums
Fisker Buzz Forums

User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-24-2017, 11:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
marswill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 351
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Default Karma Automotive Appoints Barny Koehler President-China

http://markets.businessinsider.com/n...004043?ref=yfp
__________________
2012 Karma EcoSport Inferno/Canyon #1188
1966 Pontiac LeMans Sprint, Propane Powered
marswill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2017, 07:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
Super Moderator
 
Fabulist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 4,645
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marswill View Post
After all the different fiascos he has presided over, I am surprised Barny is still employed by Karma.
__________________
-- Fab.

Original owner of 2012 Eco Sport Black (Eclipse) with Monsoon Tritone Interior. VIN: -0641
Fabulist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2017, 05:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
Early Adopter
 
Nin ja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,221
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 215 Post(s)
Garage
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabulist View Post
After all the different fiascos he has presided over, I am surprised Barny is still employed by Karma.
He has pictures and files on a few people , they man want to start calling him "little Hoover" - LOLs
__________________
Karma Ecosport eclipse / dune
Nin ja is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 12-27-2017, 02:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
Liked, but not well liked
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,168
Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 451 Post(s)
Default

https://youtu.be/FvKc6xJZh6Y?t=330

Infamous tapes during the subcommittee hearing
PowerSource is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2017, 02:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Dave_Car_Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerSource View Post
https://youtu.be/FvKc6xJZh6Y?t=330

Infamous tapes during the subcommittee hearing
Why do you refer to those as "infamous"? Issa was asking questions that the Fisker guys could not answer, regarding what knowledge they had of John Doerr's access to someone in the DOE. They had no idea what John Doerr does or doesn't do... he was not on the Board at Fisker. Ray Lane was the sole KPCB contact. The congressman was asking Barny to speculate on what Ray Lane might or might not have discussed with John Doerr. It was a ridiculous line of questioning. Barny answered the only way he could. Issa was talking about John Doerr's meetings with the white house in 2010 and 2011. The DOE loan approval occurred before those dates.
__________________
Dave
Danville, CA

Dave_Car_Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2017, 11:08 AM   #6 (permalink)
Liked, but not well liked
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,168
Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 451 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Car_Guy View Post
Why do you refer to those as "infamous"? Issa was asking questions that the Fisker guys could not answer, regarding what knowledge they had of John Doerr's access to someone in the DOE. They had no idea what John Doerr does or doesn't do... he was not on the Board at Fisker. Ray Lane was the sole KPCB contact. The congressman was asking Barny to speculate on what Ray Lane might or might not have discussed with John Doerr. It was a ridiculous line of questioning. Barny answered the only way he could. Issa was talking about John Doerr's meetings with the white house in 2010 and 2011. The DOE loan approval occurred before those dates.

I am sure you have seen the whole inquiry, I found it ridiculous that he was still touting the line that he believed it was still possible that the DOE loan could be paid back. A few months later they went BK.

Most of the private capital that poured in was due to them touting the ATVM DOE Loan. Barny himself said without the loan they had nothing with the loan they were oversubscribed. Their whole ability to raise was 100% based on the loan. Most of the deadlines were missed with regards to the loans.

Fisker Automotive never told investors until in mid 2012 I believe, that they had missed many of the deadlines and that it was unlikely they would be able to draw down the DOE loan.

There was a whole timeline website of how it went down. Many people lost a lot of money investing in this debacle- because they believed they believed it was backed by the DOE- even as the DOE had essentially frozen the loans.
PowerSource is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2017, 12:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Dave_Car_Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Default

Ahh, gotcha. Your comment makes more sense in that context. That particular clip you posted was just not a super-relevant line of questioning. FWIW, I believe the big mistake was having Advanced Equity involved, bringing in individuals as a cluster of investors in what should have been a pure VC play.

In 2009, the DOE loan was definitely seen as a way to entice more VC money into the company. But the VCs were tapped out and wouldn't come in for enough. My knowledge on the subject only goes from 2008-2009, and after early 2010, I'm unaware of what actually happened and what they knew or didn't know, but clearly the loan was a problem as they continued to try to save it with more equity. Again, I can't say what they actually believed except to say that from what I saw, they ALWAYS believed their own story.

Keep in mind, that with enough equity, they could have had enough money held in reserve to make payments due under the loan regardless of cash flow, but they had a requirement to manufacture a certain number of cars per year and I believe that was the covenant they breached that ultimately caused the loan to be in default. That was a covenant in the loan unique to Fisker: Tesla and other borrowers did not generally have that unit-sales requirement. I'm fairly certain they would have tried to have that covenant waived while also trying to raise more capital. So yes, maybe they actually continued to believe they could save it. Also note there is a difference between the DOE having stopped advancing money under the loan and actually calling it into default. The company was trying to renegotiate the terms of the loan. The money was being raised while there were no more tranches of loan money coming in, but the DOE had not YET filed the loan as in default.

Fisker's big problem in all that, as you say, was failing to disclose the detail of all that to potential investors. A VC would never invest without doing all the due diligence to find out the status of all those issues, but Advanced Equities was a broker and therefore a buffer between the individuals investing and the company. The disclosure language in securities documents usually has all kinds of things about what "may" happen in its risk section. The problem here is that the loan issues weren't a "may happen", they were already happening. Note that one article indicated that "Privately, the company was trying to renegotiate the loan terms, telling Energy Department overseers in fall 2011 that it needed to raise additional private equity. The Energy Department, in internal briefings, noted that it had granted Fisker a one-year waiver in early December 2011 on meeting certain unspecified milestones and covenants - but it had not restored access to the loan funds."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...95G02L20130617

So back on topic: Barny is now the President of Karma China. At least he has no need to raise capital and the only people he has to answer to is Wanxiang Group. If he lies to them, I suppose a Congressional hearing will be the least of his worries.
__________________
Dave
Danville, CA

Dave_Car_Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2017, 12:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
Liked, but not well liked
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,168
Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 451 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Car_Guy View Post
Ahh, gotcha. Your comment makes more sense in that context. That particular clip you posted was just not a super-relevant line of questioning. FWIW, I believe the big mistake was having Advanced Equity involved, bringing in individuals as a cluster of investors in what should have been a pure VC play.

In 2009, the DOE loan was definitely seen as a way to entice more VC money into the company. But the VCs were tapped out and wouldn't come in for enough. My knowledge on the subject only goes from 2008-2009, and after early 2010, I'm unaware of what actually happened and what they knew or didn't know, but clearly the loan was a problem as they continued to try to save it with more equity. Again, I can't say what they actually believed except to say that from what I saw, they ALWAYS believed their own story.

Keep in mind, that with enough equity, they could have had enough money held in reserve to make payments due under the loan regardless of cash flow, but they had a requirement to manufacture a certain number of cars per year and I believe that was the covenant they breached that ultimately caused the loan to be in default. That was a covenant in the loan unique to Fisker: Tesla and other borrowers did not generally have that unit-sales requirement. I'm fairly certain they would have tried to have that covenant waived while also trying to raise more capital. So yes, maybe they actually continued to believe they could save it. Also note there is a difference between the DOE having stopped advancing money under the loan and actually calling it into default. The company was trying to renegotiate the terms of the loan. The money was being raised while there were no more tranches of loan money coming in, but the DOE had not YET filed the loan as in default.

Fisker's big problem in all that, as you say, was failing to disclose the detail of all that to potential investors. A VC would never invest without doing all the due diligence to find out the status of all those issues, but Advanced Equities was a broker and therefore a buffer between the individuals investing and the company. The disclosure language in securities documents usually has all kinds of things about what "may" happen in its risk section. The problem here is that the loan issues weren't a "may happen", they were already happening. Note that one article indicated that "Privately, the company was trying to renegotiate the loan terms, telling Energy Department overseers in fall 2011 that it needed to raise additional private equity. The Energy Department, in internal briefings, noted that it had granted Fisker a one-year waiver in early December 2011 on meeting certain unspecified milestones and covenants - but it had not restored access to the loan funds."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...95G02L20130617

So back on topic: Barny is now the President of Karma China. At least he has no need to raise capital and the only people he has to answer to is Wanxiang Group. If he lies to them, I suppose a Congressional hearing will be the least of his worries.

Agreed the one other thing was that the timelines listed in order to drawn down the DOE loan were unrealistic.

The report I was thinking about was the privco one.

Quote:
U.S. Department of Energy made no announcement to the public that Fisker was in Default of Its Loan and Credit Agreements and no longer had access to the remaining balance of $336.4 Million, resulting in continued reliance on hundreds of additional individual investors purchasing Fisker stock in the hundreds of millions of dollars through the Advanced Equities “Fisker Funds” limited partnerships as well as reliance on that reasonable assumption that Fisker had continued and substantial access to the remaining $336.4 Million of credit line liquidity through the U.S. government.
https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/u...raft_25200.jpg

One engagement that I do question is why coachbuild licensed its name to automotive? Coachbuild only owned 38% and then diluted itself to the point of owning a trivial amount of the JV yet charged Automotive for use of the Fisker name, logo etc. That whole arrangement seemed like a sweetheart deal for coachbuild.
PowerSource is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2017, 12:35 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
buzinvest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: (30 min. S. of Cleveland, Ohio)
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Garage
Default

Researching all of this is fascinating and educational.

All of the above is nicely summarized in The Denver Post, Opinion/The Fisker cliff (Column), by The Wahington Post, published April 30, 2013, 5:08am/UPDATED April 30, 2016 8:57am.

All of the following are included:
Henrik Fisker, Capital Hill Washington, House oversight subcommittee on Economic Growth, Job Creation, & Regulatory Affairs, hearings on Energy Dept loans, failed companies, Obama Administration, Green Energy Loan Program, Private Capital, hybrid/electric car companies, cash, suppliers, layoffs, Executives (Bernhard Koehler), Dept of Energy, Subscribed Equity, VP Biden, Seed Money, Over one billion dollars in private investment, Experience or lack thereof in mass producing autos, bankruptcy, complex battery power, taxpayers, PrivCo.com, government prop up and promotion, Republican committees, political connections, Silicon Valley, Venture Capital, Kleiner Perkins Caufield Byers KPCB, Forbes, lawsuits, backers, Democrats, John Doerr & Al Gore, smoking gun, fools gold, U.S. elite, DiCaprio, Colin Powell, getting rich, financially, politically, endowments, charitable foundations, Advanced Equities Inc, Board Members, WSJ, Preferred shares, common stock, pay to play, start ups, Securities & Exchange Commission, Fraud charges, fundraising, Bloom Energy, CIA, Government, fuel taxes, research, potential corruption, etc, etc.
Of course this is all the "opinion summary" of the author(s).
__________________
Buzinvest
Signature Car #13, Silver Mirage, Tri-Tone Mohave
buzinvest is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Karma to Produce Atlantic in China & Mexico PowerSource Fisker Atlantic (Nina) 1 08-22-2016 04:40 PM
China's Wanxiang wins U.S. bankruptcy auction for Fisker Automotive smggsm The Fisker Lounge 2 02-15-2014 12:29 PM
Demand escalates in China for Fisker Karma plugitin Fisker Karma 2 04-26-2012 05:32 AM
Koehler: deliveries in July Dutch Fisker Karma 4 03-10-2011 07:56 AM
Biography of Fisker Automotive COO Bernhard Koehler Wimbledon The Fisker Lounge 0 09-15-2009 12:22 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:44 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.