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Old 02-23-2015, 03:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default China's Wanxiang to rebrand Fisker as Elux - sources

Time to change the name of the forum to ELUXBUZZ.....

I pray this is not the case because the name ELUX sucks. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The name Fisker sounds cool, ELUX sounds like fucking light bulb not a car. Obviously the Fisker name has had some bad press but long term the Fisker name I believe is a much better brand than ELUX. It needs to be something cool and unique. ELUX which I'm assuming stands for Electric Luxury is too plain and boring. Thoughts?

------

DETROIT (Reuters) - Chinese auto parts maker Wanxiang Group will push back its planned relaunch of the defunct Fisker Karma hybrid sports car until mid-2016 and rebrand Fisker Automotive as Elux, two sources familiar with the plan said Sunday.

Wanxiang, which acquired the assets of California-based Fisker Automotive a year ago in a U.S. bankruptcy auction, had hoped to revive the Karma this year.

The revised version of the Karma will be renamed Elux Karma and the Fisker name will be dropped, said the sources, who asked not to be named because they were not authorized to speak for Wanxiang.

The sources said the revived gasoline-electric car will not be assembled in Finland as earlier planned. Wanxiang has not finalized a production site, the sources said.

Wanxiang plans to price the car from around $135,000, the sources said, nearly 20 percent higher than the final price of the original Karma, which ceased production in 2012.

Wanxiang did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Fisker Automotive was an early rival of Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA.O), but despite the backing of the U.S. government and private investors, the company failed just six years after its 2007 launch.

Fisker Automotive was co-founded by Danish designer Henrik Fisker, who previously created such well-received sports cars as the Aston Martin DB9 and the BMW Z8.

Last fall, Henrik Fisker resurfaced as the designer of a special limited edition of the Ford Mustang, dubbed the Rocket, created for California dealer Galpin Ford.

One of the sources said the revived Fisker car likely would be based heavily on Henrik Fisker's original Karma design.

One question is whether and how much Wanxiang will revise the car's battery pack, which was developed and supplied by another U.S. company, A123 Systems, that went bankrupt and was eventually acquired by Wanxiang.

One of the sources said Wanxiang is spending "millions" to update the car's hardware, much of which dates back seven years, to make it more competitive with newer vehicles introduced in the last several years.

(Reporting by Paul Lienert in Detroit; Editing by Tom Brown)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclus...FfMQRzZWMDc3I-
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Old 02-23-2015, 08:55 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tannerc View Post
Time to change the name of the forum to ELUXBUZZ.....

I pray this is not the case because the name ELUX sucks. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The name Fisker sounds cool, ELUX sounds like fucking light bulb not a car. Obviously the Fisker name has had some bad press but long term the Fisker name I believe is a much better brand than ELUX. It needs to be something cool and unique. ELUX which I'm assuming stands for Electric Luxury is too plain and boring. Thoughts?

------

DETROIT (Reuters) - Chinese auto parts maker Wanxiang Group will push back its planned relaunch of the defunct Fisker Karma hybrid sports car until mid-2016 and rebrand Fisker Automotive as Elux, two sources familiar with the plan said Sunday.

Wanxiang, which acquired the assets of California-based Fisker Automotive a year ago in a U.S. bankruptcy auction, had hoped to revive the Karma this year.

The revised version of the Karma will be renamed Elux Karma and the Fisker name will be dropped, said the sources, who asked not to be named because they were not authorized to speak for Wanxiang.

The sources said the revived gasoline-electric car will not be assembled in Finland as earlier planned. Wanxiang has not finalized a production site, the sources said.

Wanxiang plans to price the car from around $135,000, the sources said, nearly 20 percent higher than the final price of the original Karma, which ceased production in 2012.

Wanxiang did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Fisker Automotive was an early rival of Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA.O), but despite the backing of the U.S. government and private investors, the company failed just six years after its 2007 launch.

Fisker Automotive was co-founded by Danish designer Henrik Fisker, who previously created such well-received sports cars as the Aston Martin DB9 and the BMW Z8.

Last fall, Henrik Fisker resurfaced as the designer of a special limited edition of the Ford Mustang, dubbed the Rocket, created for California dealer Galpin Ford.

One of the sources said the revived Fisker car likely would be based heavily on Henrik Fisker's original Karma design.

One question is whether and how much Wanxiang will revise the car's battery pack, which was developed and supplied by another U.S. company, A123 Systems, that went bankrupt and was eventually acquired by Wanxiang.

One of the sources said Wanxiang is spending "millions" to update the car's hardware, much of which dates back seven years, to make it more competitive with newer vehicles introduced in the last several years.

(Reporting by Paul Lienert in Detroit; Editing by Tom Brown)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclus...FfMQRzZWMDc3I-
I agree that ELux sounds more like a vacuum cleaner than a car, but unfortunately the name Fisker has a fair amount of baggage associated with it now, and there may also be legal, practical, and marketing issues with using the name of a potential competitor as your company name, even if you have the rights to the name.
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Old 02-23-2015, 09:54 AM   #3 (permalink)
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To parse this

DETROIT (Reuters) - Chinese auto parts maker Wanxiang Group will push back its planned relaunch of the defunct Fisker Karma hybrid sports car until mid-2016 and rebrand Fisker Automotive as Elux, two sources familiar with the plan said Sunday.
I propose a contest for who can come closest to release date

Wanxiang, which acquired the assets of California-based Fisker Automotive a year ago in a U.S. bankruptcy auction, had hoped to revive the Karma this year.
Hope springs eternal

The revised version of the Karma will be renamed Elux Karma and the Fisker name will be dropped, said the sources, who asked not to be named because they were not authorized to speak for Wanxiang.
Like Fab, I immediately thought of ELECTROLUX, which is a throwback to the past, not the future. Maybe we can encourage them to sue for trademark infringement

The sources said the revived gasoline-electric car will not be assembled in Finland as earlier planned. Wanxiang has not finalized a production site, the sources said.
don't tell Valmet, or we'll never get those parts

Wanxiang plans to price the car from around $135,000, the sources said, nearly 20 percent higher than the final price of the original Karma, which ceased production in 2012.
wonder if this will lift 2012 prices

Wanxiang did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Lost in translation

Fisker Automotive was an early rival of Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA.O), but despite the backing of the U.S. government and private investors, the company failed just six years after its 2007 launch.
Ah, I remember the Obama/Romney debates so well, when Mitt accused the president of 'picking losers', mentioning both companies in the same breath

...
One of the sources said the revived Fisker car likely would be based heavily on Henrik Fisker's original Karma design.
I hope "heavily" enough that new parts fit 2012

One question is whether and how much Wanxiang will revise the car's battery pack, which was developed and supplied by another U.S. company, A123 Systems, that went bankrupt and was eventually acquired by Wanxiang.
Yes, I sincerely hope A123 is still making batteries for Karmas new and old

One of the sources said Wanxiang is spending "millions" to update the car's hardware, much of which dates back seven years, to make it more competitive with newer vehicles introduced in the last several years.
Millions isn't a lot in the car design world.
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Old 02-23-2015, 11:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
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What a nonsenes... in my job as consultant for strategic marketing very often I experience(ed) that so called "CEOs" damage/destroy the core values of a "brand" and act like stupid in the sense of "new is always better".

I am Jaguar driver (XJS V12, Daimler Double6) and on weekend I fell over the Fisker Karma... and fell in love with. What beautyness... (More I am scared to think about buying one when reading in this forum about all the troubles the owners have with this car.)

Its pitty, that Mr. Fisker from Denmark seemed of bad qualities as FEO ruining hundreds of millions dollars... an excellent designer, no doubt.... and the global image FIsker already created by its concept, media attention and more than 2,400 Karmas built is worth the buyin by Wanxiang at the bit prize of 149.2 million US dollars.

If Weiding Lu (CEO), Pin Ni (president of Wanxian) and Lu Guanqiu (chairman) should follow the advices of their marketing chiefs, product managers and conultants of advertising agency to rename FIsker into Elux they will be fooled... and ruin everything what has been built.

But so it is... people with nothing else than big money, lacking of love and passion... and probably not owning a Fisker always damage a brand's value. History repeats again and again.

ELux remembers me AccuLux... an international (German) brand founded by the German engineer Witte who developed the first ever rechargable lights.... http://www.acculux.eu

A car/automotive brand shouldnt get the image to be a torch only because it has a sun roof solar panel and using electricity instead of petrol, isn't ? - What bad idea...

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Old 02-23-2015, 12:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Fabulist View Post
I agree that ELux sounds more like a vacuum cleaner than a car, but unfortunately the name Fisker has a fair amount of baggage associated with it now, and there may also be legal, practical, and marketing issues with using the name of a potential competitor as your company name, even if you have the rights to the name.
What is in the head, or spoken in a methapher, in the hearts of the people is the beautyness / functionality of the car ? - Thats the status quo every marketing CEO would ask first... as brand values are essentially and not easily to create.

Reading the postings here in the forum clearly shows it... It remembers me to those car owners who loved to drive Italian sports cars in the 70th and 80th, e.g. Lancias and Alfa Romeos. All have known till the 90th that the quality lacks extremly... but the sportivness of these cars, the engines and chassis were outstanding (Rec.: I know what I am talking about... as I drove on my own a Lancia Beta Coupe 2.0 which I had to warm up first 5 kilometers because the oil sump had no baffle plates and therefore it was too risky to drive with speed into curves getting a seized-up piston while the oil was still cold.)

To buy such an extra-ordinary, expensive car (at a prize of 100,000 or higher) like a Fisker isnt a rational decision anymore (and cant be such one... as there exist some better Eco alternatives - under purely environmental aspects).

A good example is Jaguar, which failed as English brand - with an outstanding understatement of British elegance and nobless - in the late 80th (and still in the 90th). - The maintenance work and repair costs of a Jaguar easily climbed up to 10,000 dollars and higher with one garage visit.
Jaguar tried to rescue its image being sold to Ford in 1990... for modernizing its production and using the basis of Ford company's cars to bring down the production costs. - Did Ford rename the Jaguar brand ? - We know the answer...

Under 2nd new ownership (India's biggest company Tata bought Jaguar in 2008) and wIth the new F-Type (since 2012) the whole range of products receives a restructuring... and the image of Jaguar herewith didnt suffer extremly. Did Tata Motors rename Jaguar because of its bad image ?

Imagine, Tata Motors would have renamed Jaguar into something like Tigre to come free of the negative image the cars still had. - That way Marketing in automotive segments doesnt work.

As another example we could take the S.m.a.r.t. ... which suffered extremly by bad sales volumes in the 90th, too.... but with DaimplerCrysler as new owner in 1998 and a complete restructuring this brand is still alive and has its market as city hopper.

I dont see any reason why a Fisker should not stay a Fisker... a Fisker Karma - by its look - and thats all what counts on first sight - has to be a Fisker... as the brand values around the design and basic concept (double electric engines + generation for long distance range) is what counts. Its the core of the brand... beside all critics of "bad quality".

We see nowadays excatly this concept in XXL Hybrid City buses... here one of the leading companies is settled in Switzerland... the corporation Hess http://www.hess-ag.ch/en/busse/techn...ridtechnik.php .

E.g. The buses are used by Hanseatic City Hamburg (where I live) and I experienced them on my own. Its excatly the concept as we know it in a Fisker... and its a great way to reduce gasoline consumption and noise. - Just different names, e.g. "Silent mode" at bus stations where only the electric motors run while the busses are charged outside the bus stations by a diesel engine. Same princips works with the braking energy in these buses (which is nothing new as reuperation brakes are used since longer in train engines, e.g. the legendary crocodile of Swiss railway used it since long... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_(locomotive) )

So why changing the basic concept of a Fisker if it's concept is used - under heavy load - in inner-city traffic systems successfully and other systems ? - A new name would not make sense, not at all.
As I see it the main critics is the battery tunnel which takes a lot of space away, the small trunk and the heavy weight (compared with a Tesla) of nearby 1,600 kilogrammes. Mainly these three critics must be changed... beside some other smaller issues (e.g. software, tires).

The battery charging problems will be solved by further development within the battery industries... as Wanxiang bought the US lithium-ion battery maker A123 Systems in Dec 2012 for a bit price of 256.6 million US dollars, the solution probably is already in the pocket for the next generation of Fisker cars.
A123 just got a new FEO ( http://www.a123systems.com/media-roo...s-releases.htm ) which is a clear signal to the public that the growth of 2014 will be expanded. There is no need for worries about that A123 wont deliver an adequate solution for the new Fiskers beginning of 2016.

I suppose, that Wanxiang targets at a total different market, the Chinese / Asian market... and not the US or European market as there the traffic jam is heavily in the huge mega cities... They need there electro cars urgently.

E.g. look at South Korea/Seoul. There owners of a Hyundai Equus ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Equus ) might buy a rebranded Fisker as 2nd car, to have a more sportive hybrid version.

Therefore the reason (as marketing issue) might be that phonetically Chinese and Asians have troubles with Fisker to pronounce it easily and properly... and "Elux" might be seen as the solution to make the concept attractive to one of the biggest car markets in the world (beside India, Africa).

Since last 10 years I am focussed on South Asian markets in my 2nd profession as media producer (mainly India) and since 2014 I am involved in an Asian project (China, Korea, Japan) which shows me that China and Korea mainly are focussed on their own markets. They do not care a lot about Western thinking.

Personally I'd prefer Fisker (as Western)... sounds more cool. :-)

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Old 02-23-2015, 01:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
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e.g. the legendary crocodile of Swiss railway used it since long... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_(locomotive) )
The correct link... :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_(locomotive)
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Old 02-23-2015, 01:51 PM   #7 (permalink)
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@SenseMaker2015, rebranding is a tricky thing. Sometimes it works well (Exxon from Esso) but often it fails miserably. One example I witnessed first hand was McAfee, which was the company that invented computer virus scanning, spent a lot of money rebranding itself as Network General in the early 2000's, only to go back to the McAfee name a few years later. Today, despite Mr. McAfee's bizarre behavior in the last couple of years, the company shows no desire to change the name to something else.

There may be very good reasons to change the company's name to something other than Fisker - even native English speakers sometimes have difficulty pronouncing it - but I think they could have done better than ELux.
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Old 02-23-2015, 01:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Sensemaker: keep in mind that the decision to abandon the name "Fisker" may not have been entirely Wainxiang's, because when they bought the company out of bankruptcy last year, they appear to not have bought the rights to use the name (this was discussed elsewhere on the board last year). This makes a little bit of sense, since Henrik is still in the business of designing cars, but it was a pretty shocking development in the case.

In response to another point you made: although it is true that you will read on this board about lots of problems with the car, I wouldn't conclude from that that the car itself if fault-ridden. It is simply the nature of a forum to post questions and problems to seek solutions. You are less likely to hear all the good qualities of the car, which for me has been relatively fault-free after 16,000 miles of driving.

The Karma is without doubt one of the coolest things I've ever bought (the other being an original copy of Detective 27, which you see sharing my avatar with the logo - you can't drive a comic book though!).
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Old 02-23-2015, 01:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
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For those of us who value the originality of the first run of Fisker's I think we can be assured that we now own one of a very limited number of vehicles. No matter how bad the new name might be, we own a true Fisker Karma - and we bought them for the right reasons. Hopefully we will continue to receive support from T.N.F. My guess is their value is only going to increase over time.
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Old 02-23-2015, 02:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SenseMaker2015 View Post
What is in the head, or spoken in a methapher, in the hearts of the people is the beautyness / functionality of the car ? - Thats the status quo every marketing CEO would ask first... as brand values are essentially and not easily to create.

Reading the postings here in the forum clearly shows it... It remembers me to those car owners who loved to drive Italian sports cars in the 70th and 80th, e.g. Lancias and Alfa Romeos. All have known till the 90th that the quality lacks extremly... but the sportivness of these cars, the engines and chassis were outstanding (Rec.: I know what I am talking about... as I drove on my own a Lancia Beta Coupe 2.0 which I had to warm up first 5 kilometers because the oil sump had no baffle plates and therefore it was too risky to drive with speed into curves getting a seized-up piston while the oil was still cold.)

To buy such an extra-ordinary, expensive car (at a prize of 100,000 or higher) like a Fisker isnt a rational decision anymore (and cant be such one... as there exist some better Eco alternatives - under purely environmental aspects).

A good example is Jaguar, which failed as English brand - with an outstanding understatement of British elegance and nobless - in the late 80th (and still in the 90th). - The maintenance work and repair costs of a Jaguar easily climbed up to 10,000 dollars and higher with one garage visit.
Jaguar tried to rescue its image being sold to Ford in 1990... for modernizing its production and using the basis of Ford company's cars to bring down the production costs. - Did Ford rename the Jaguar brand ? - We know the answer...

Under 2nd new ownership (India's biggest company Tata bought Jaguar in 2008) and wIth the new F-Type (since 2012) the whole range of products receives a restructuring... and the image of Jaguar herewith didnt suffer extremly. Did Tata Motors rename Jaguar because of its bad image ?

Imagine, Tata Motors would have renamed Jaguar into something like Tigre to come free of the negative image the cars still had. - That way Marketing in automotive segments doesnt work.

As another example we could take the S.m.a.r.t. ... which suffered extremly by bad sales volumes in the 90th, too.... but with DaimplerCrysler as new owner in 1998 and a complete restructuring this brand is still alive and has its market as city hopper.

I dont see any reason why a Fisker should not stay a Fisker... a Fisker Karma - by its look - and thats all what counts on first sight - has to be a Fisker... as the brand values around the design and basic concept (double electric engines + generation for long distance range) is what counts. Its the core of the brand... beside all critics of "bad quality".

We see nowadays excatly this concept in XXL Hybrid City buses... here one of the leading companies is settled in Switzerland... the corporation Hess http://www.hess-ag.ch/en/busse/techn...ridtechnik.php .

E.g. The buses are used by Hanseatic City Hamburg (where I live) and I experienced them on my own. Its excatly the concept as we know it in a Fisker... and its a great way to reduce gasoline consumption and noise. - Just different names, e.g. "Silent mode" at bus stations where only the electric motors run while the busses are charged outside the bus stations by a diesel engine. Same princips works with the braking energy in these buses (which is nothing new as reuperation brakes are used since longer in train engines, e.g. the legendary crocodile of Swiss railway used it since long... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_(locomotive) )

So why changing the basic concept of a Fisker if it's concept is used - under heavy load - in inner-city traffic systems successfully and other systems ? - A new name would not make sense, not at all.
As I see it the main critics is the battery tunnel which takes a lot of space away, the small trunk and the heavy weight (compared with a Tesla) of nearby 1,600 kilogrammes. Mainly these three critics must be changed... beside some other smaller issues (e.g. software, tires).

The battery charging problems will be solved by further development within the battery industries... as Wanxiang bought the US lithium-ion battery maker A123 Systems in Dec 2012 for a bit price of 256.6 million US dollars, the solution probably is already in the pocket for the next generation of Fisker cars.
A123 just got a new FEO ( http://www.a123systems.com/media-roo...s-releases.htm ) which is a clear signal to the public that the growth of 2014 will be expanded. There is no need for worries about that A123 wont deliver an adequate solution for the new Fiskers beginning of 2016.

I suppose, that Wanxiang targets at a total different market, the Chinese / Asian market... and not the US or European market as there the traffic jam is heavily in the huge mega cities... They need there electro cars urgently.

E.g. look at South Korea/Seoul. There owners of a Hyundai Equus ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Equus ) might buy a rebranded Fisker as 2nd car, to have a more sportive hybrid version.

Therefore the reason (as marketing issue) might be that phonetically Chinese and Asians have troubles with Fisker to pronounce it easily and properly... and "Elux" might be seen as the solution to make the concept attractive to one of the biggest car markets in the world (beside India, Africa).

Since last 10 years I am focussed on South Asian markets in my 2nd profession as media producer (mainly India) and since 2014 I am involved in an Asian project (China, Korea, Japan) which shows me that China and Korea mainly are focussed on their own markets. They do not care a lot about Western thinking.

Personally I'd prefer Fisker (as Western)... sounds more cool. :-)
Fiskel Kalma solves the pronounciation problem :-)
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