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-   -   Fox News reports increase in Karma price (https://www.fiskerbuzz.com/forums/13-fisker-karma/472-fox-news-reports-increase-karma-price.html)

SoCalGuy 12-14-2011 01:22 AM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by svp6
Wow, this is the most rapidly growing thread on the forum - and by far the most spirited - or if you want insulting one. As much as I like Karma to succeed, it is impossible not to laugh at with how much passion it is defended based on.....what?

Plugitin used his only 4th post on this forum to bring the "you don't know WTF" to Fiskerbuzz - this is one statement that I sure did not miss in our conversations so far. While I appreciate his strong belief in Karma, I certainly do not sympathize with the tone - especially directed against somebody who spent much more time and effort researching this topic (that is Brian).

The fact remains that no matter how gorgeous the Karma looks like (and it surely does so), it still has to prove itself as a reliable car. None of us posting here have driven anything more than few miles in either the road show cars or the dealer demo's, so all the talk is based on hope and trust rather than on experience....

As I said before, I bailed out and got a car from a more reliable manufacturer for now. I really like the Karma, and if it proves itself, Fisker will get my business in the future.

Meanwhile, may I suggest that we maintain the polite tone in stating our opinions? Just my 0.02$.

I'm with you. Agree on all points. The rational side of me says "wait" but the emotional side keeps saying "buy" - I really do think that part o the reason for the price increase was to "scare" prospective buyers into buying while prices are "low" before they go up and up and up like real estate. As much as I've had my $95K (now $105K) set aside in a little Fisker escrow account for the last few years, I can't help but say lets just see how the early adopters fare with the product in the first few months to see if there are any reliability/quality issues...if not, great... well worth the extra $6K you have to dish out to know that there aren't major issues with the car....

2012 Fisker Karma: $107,000
Premium for waiting: $7,000
Peace of mind knowing all the bugs have been worked out: Priceless!

Sigurd 12-14-2011 01:24 AM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
If I wasn't a dreamer, I wouldn't have put down $5K on my dream almost 4 years ago (S.E. #72). I'm still a believer and can't wait to pick up my car on Saturday! svp6, if a reliable car is your goal, then be glad you're not in my shoes. #72 might not be the best bet for that. #3500 might be a better bet. But, having owned many "unreliable" cars in the past (Fiat X19, 2 Lotus Esprits) I have had much enjoyment out of them. But, this is my 5th car in the stable and I'm just happy to be a part of something new and exciting. Metalica23, give me $195K for mine and you can have it next week, and I'll pay you a extra $10 to take your spot so you can make a profit.
BTW, I agree, a polite tone is good. And, in 1994 the Mitsubishi 3000 was a head-turner. And, the Ferraris from that era are about as dated as it is.

dennis 12-14-2011 02:17 AM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
I think most of the supporters on this forum fit the classic "early adopter" profile - we want to be among the first with the new new thing, are willing to take risk, are willing to overlook the inevitable problems and delays associated with a first product even though we might bitch about it, etc. Those who desire the car but want to wait until it is proven are in the "early majority". Volumes have been written about this adoption curve in the tech world, the seminal work being Geoffrey Moore's "Crossing the Chasm".

I'm one of the early adopters. Every new BMW I read about and wanted over the past 30+ years I put a deposit on as soon as I heard about it , typically 2 years before delivery - 1978 733i, 1988 750iL, 2000 M5, 2006 M5. I was rewarded by getting one of the first of each model in my local area. Now its the Fisker Karma and McLaren MP4 12C.

Like the rest of you, I desperately want Fisker to succeed. That's why it hurts so much when they screw up their communications with us and the marketplace.

- Dennis




BillyO 12-14-2011 02:19 AM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
They are just asking current deposit holders who haven't decided on a configuration to do so. That's not unreasonable. They aren't asking for a bigger deposit. They just want to verify you are still interested by having you come in and make a choice. So far they have indicated they would return your deposit if the car arrived and you decided not to take delivery. I can see why they can't hold the price indefinitely while some deposit holders sit on the sideline. They are probably getting close to finishing most of the cars that have confirmed a combination and in order to keep the line moving they need orders. My VIN is 919 and it's in final assembly so they probably only have another couple hundred cars confirmed now. Of course all this is speculation since Fisker communicates like the Nixon administration.

BillyO

Sigurd 12-14-2011 02:30 AM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
I think they have confidence in their final product and think that the demand will be huge within the next month or so when many of us will have the cars in our garage, and they think that the general public will accept the new price point. Only time will tell. I'm sure part of what influenced their decision is what the demand feedback they are getting from the dealers around the world is. I believe they are making sound decisions based on facts we simply don't have.

metalica23 12-14-2011 09:01 AM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigurd
Metalica23, give me $195K for mine and you can have it next week, and I'll pay you a extra $10 to take your spot so you can make a profit.

BTW, you have an extra "1" in front of the 9. Honest mistake, I'm sure. :) I really had no interest in selling my car (not the spot, I doubt you can do that...), but it's getting to that point for me that I'm less and less interested in the car. Maybe when I test drive it, that will change, but I'm not optimistic...

marcus 12-14-2011 10:43 AM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
Law of supply and demand or they are looking to lower volume.
Either way it is a double win for me - More exclusivity and increased value.

BTW - I ordered mine in October and was told production would start 12/20... what happened to the 3000 orders ahead of me?

Mycroft 12-14-2011 11:24 AM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
=> " I ordered mine in October and was told production would start 12/20... what happened to the 3000 orders ahead of me?"

If you believe that date, I have some stock to sell you.

Fabulist 12-14-2011 02:35 PM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marcus
BTW - I ordered mine in October and was told production would start 12/20... what happened to the 3000 orders ahead of me?

How specific were they about the year? :rolleyes:

-- Fab.

ct-fiskerbuzz 12-14-2011 10:37 PM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabulist
I would be shocked if the Karma uses the same electric motors as the Aggressor prototype.

It might not; I'm just guessing, based on news reports and the cost of R&D and such.

Quote:

The Tesla S ...

I would also be concerned about how much power charging a 300-mile battery would draw. Homes in the US typically have a 200A electrical connection to the grid. To charge a massive battery like that in a reasonable amount of time you have to draw significant current, probably on the scale of 80A - 100A which would could overpower your electrical systems and require some serious wiring which may be beyond the capacity of an older home.
New homes do. Mine doesn't :) Upgrading the main drop is part of the renovation plan (what with new kitchen, electric floor heating in the master bath, and so on). My old El Cerrito home had just 70A.

In any case, the Roadster has a 70A fast charge option, and apparently Tesla have developed a "Frankenstein connector" that will let you charge the Roadster with a standard Level 2 charger or their own (variable limit depending on installation) system. I suspect they will continue with that system for the Model S, given that they have it and it works...

(Incidentally, back on the topic of the thread, I got mail from my dealer saying that he'd gotten confirmation from Fisker that my order is at the pre-increase price.)

BillyO 12-17-2011 11:12 AM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mycroft
=> " I ordered mine in October and was told production would start 12/20... what happened to the 3000 orders ahead of me?"

If you believe that date, I have some stock to sell you.

I don't think there are anywhere near 3000 "confirmed" orders now. My bet is the production of all the current confirmed configurations is nearly complete. We've been hearing 3000 forever. I bet many of the original 3000 deposit holders have dropped out mainly due to total lack of consideration from Fisker. Even Brian was on the verge and he's only had a deposit up for a year. If the deposit holder number was really impressive Fisker would be touting it. I bet it's even less than the original 3000 and that's with demos at the dealerships. When there are big management shake ups, there is always an untold background story. You have to believe that if they had 7,000 to 10,000 new deposits, they would be publicizing that.

BillyO

Dutch 12-17-2011 03:36 PM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyO
I don't think there are anywhere near 3000 "confirmed" orders now. My bet is the production of all the current confirmed configurations is nearly complete. We've been hearing 3000 forever. I bet many of the original 3000 deposit holders have dropped out mainly due to total lack of consideration from Fisker. Even Brian was on the verge and he's only had a deposit up for a year. If the deposit holder number was really impressive Fisker would be touting it. I bet it's even less than the original 3000 and that's with demos at the dealerships. When there are big management shake ups, there is always an untold background story. You have to believe that if they had 7,000 to 10,000 new deposits, they would be publicizing that.

BillyO

At the moment production has reached #1000. A lot of cars are going to be produced in January, February and March. Anyone ordering now is looking at delivery in about half a year. That means Fisker still has a lot of orders in the books.

It is not strange that the number has stayed at 3000 for a long time. Not much happened over the last few months in the form of publicity to attract more customers. Some people will have dropped out, but others will have stepped in (maybe because of the scattered pieces of publicity like Leonardo DiCaprio, Two and a half men, the Fisker Tour). But there are still a lot of people out there who do not know about the existence of the car. The demos have been at the dealers for no more than a few weeks, many dealers outside of the US are still waiting for their demos. Publicity has been low.

All that is going to change. More and more magazines and car shows will be able to get their hands on a car for test drives, and I expect the reviews to be very positive. But more importantly, every week there will be more Karma's on the road and there will be more people seeing this stunning car. The effect? Look what a few visits to Cars & Coffee generates in attention, and then multiply that by a few thousand. Every Karma-owner will be the focus of attention wherever he or she goes, all the time. Every Karma will make hundreds of people enthusiastic or at least curious about this brand and this car.

I heard that - still unconfirmed - Brad Pitt has been spotted test driving a Karma, when he was visiting The Netherlands this week. If more and more celebrities choose this car, it could really become a snowball.

And there are still a lot markets that haven't even been tapped, like Asia.

So there is still a lot of potential for this car and this company.

Fabulist 12-17-2011 04:05 PM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
[quote=BillyO]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mycroft
=> " I ordered mine in October and was told production would start 12/20... what happened to the 3000 orders ahead of me?"
If you believe that date, I have some stock to sell you.

@BilyO: So you are the guy hawking the DeLorean stock? :D

The 3000 number represents the deposits Fisker took directly from individuals all over the world before they had a dealer network. Once they had actual dealers, they stopped accepting orders directly and directed the inquiries to the dealers who took the orders. The dealers are now sitting on an unknown number of refundable deposits that Fisker does not see until they are converted into real orders, hence the price rise to encourage the dealers to transfer their orders to Fisker as soon as possible. Obviously, some people cancelled their orders due to the delays, changed economic circumstances or impatience but given how long it takes to actually get a Karma if you order one today, it seems that they are having more trouble making them than selling them.

The main reason why you can get your car reasonably quickly is that the Karma is currently only approved for sale in the US and a couple of countries in Europe. They still don't have approval to sell in China and are still waiting for their all-European approval. So for the moment, we are jumping the queue. Once Asia, Middle East and the rest of Europe comes on line, the wait to get a Karma is going to get much longer.

-- Fab.

Thebreadman 12-17-2011 06:40 PM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyO
I don't think there are anywhere near 3000 "confirmed" orders now. My bet is the production of all the current confirmed configurations is nearly complete. We've been hearing 3000 forever. I bet many of the original 3000 deposit holders have dropped out mainly due to total lack of consideration from Fisker. Even Brian was on the verge and he's only had a deposit up for a year. If the deposit holder number was really impressive Fisker would be touting it. I bet it's even less than the original 3000 and that's with demos at the dealerships. When there are big management shake ups, there is always an untold background story. You have to believe that if they had 7,000 to 10,000 new deposits, they would be publicizing that.

BillyO

At the moment production has reached #1000. A lot of cars are going to be produced in January, February and March. Anyone ordering now is looking at delivery in about half a year. That means Fisker still has a lot of orders in the books.

It is not strange that the number has stayed at 3000 for a long time. Not much happened over the last few months in the form of publicity to attract more customers. Some people will have dropped out, but others will have stepped in (maybe because of the scattered pieces of publicity like Leonardo DiCaprio, Two and a half men, the Fisker Tour). But there are still a lot of people out there who do not know about the existence of the car. The demos have been at the dealers for no more than a few weeks, many dealers outside of the US are still waiting for their demos. Publicity has been low.

All that is going to change. More and more magazines and car shows will be able to get their hands on a car for test drives, and I expect the reviews to be very positive. But more importantly, every week there will be more Karma's on the road and there will be more people seeing this stunning car. The effect? Look what a few visits to Cars & Coffee generates in attention, and then multiply that by a few thousand. Every Karma-owner will be the focus of attention wherever he or she goes, all the time. Every Karma will make hundreds of people enthusiastic or at least curious about this brand and this car.

I heard that - still unconfirmed - Brad Pitt has been spotted test driving a Karma, when he was visiting The Netherlands this week. If more and more celebrities choose this car, it could really become a snowball.

And there are still a lot markets that haven't even been tapped, like Asia.

So there is still a lot of potential for this car and this company.

Per Fisker, the road show brought an additional 125 customers. They have not stated how many deposit holders they have lost. I think it is more than the 125 they gained from the road show.

dennis 12-17-2011 06:45 PM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebreadman
Per Fisker, the road show brought an additional 125 customers. They have not stated how many deposit holders they have lost. I think it is more than the 125 they gained from the road show.

I spoke to the owner of the 3 Fisker dealerships in Northern California today and he said they are getting new orders at the rate of almost one per day. The demo car in Silicon Valley is fully booked for test drives every Fri/Sat/Sun.

In the short term, demand will not be a problem.




BillyO 12-17-2011 11:00 PM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyO
I don't think there are anywhere near 3000 "confirmed" orders now. My bet is the production of all the current confirmed configurations is nearly complete. We've been hearing 3000 forever. I bet many of the original 3000 deposit holders have dropped out mainly due to total lack of consideration from Fisker. Even Brian was on the verge and he's only had a deposit up for a year. If the deposit holder number was really impressive Fisker would be touting it. I bet it's even less than the original 3000 and that's with demos at the dealerships. When there are big management shake ups, there is always an untold background story. You have to believe that if they had 7,000 to 10,000 new deposits, they would be publicizing that.

BillyO

At the moment production has reached #1000. A lot of cars are going to be produced in January, February and March. Anyone ordering now is looking at delivery in about half a year. That means Fisker still has a lot of orders in the books.

It is not strange that the number has stayed at 3000 for a long time. Not much happened over the last few months in the form of publicity to attract more customers. Some people will have dropped out, but others will have stepped in (maybe because of the scattered pieces of publicity like Leonardo DiCaprio, Two and a half men, the Fisker Tour). But there are still a lot of people out there who do not know about the existence of the car. The demos have been at the dealers for no more than a few weeks, many dealers outside of the US are still waiting for their demos. Publicity has been low.

All that is going to change. More and more magazines and car shows will be able to get their hands on a car for test drives, and I expect the reviews to be very positive. But more importantly, every week there will be more Karma's on the road and there will be more people seeing this stunning car. The effect? Look what a few visits to Cars & Coffee generates in attention, and then multiply that by a few thousand. Every Karma-owner will be the focus of attention wherever he or she goes, all the time. Every Karma will make hundreds of people enthusiastic or at least curious about this brand and this car.

I heard that - still unconfirmed - Brad Pitt has been spotted test driving a Karma, when he was visiting The Netherlands this week. If more and more celebrities choose this car, it could really become a snowball.

And there are still a lot markets that haven't even been tapped, like Asia.

So there is still a lot of potential for this car and this company.

The challenge for Fisker is to last long enough for the the surge you are predicting. Building the first 1000 cars must be a strain on capital and so far they are seeing very little return. I love your optimistic outlook.

BillyO

Dutch 12-19-2011 02:42 PM

RE: Fox News reports increase in Karma price
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch
I heard that - still unconfirmed - Brad Pitt has been spotted test driving a Karma, when he was visiting The Netherlands this week.

Well, that report really needed confirmation. Brad Pit was completely fake, but luckily the Karma wasn't (looks like this was a viral started by Fisker or by the shop owners in this expensive shopping street):

Video here (translation of the title: Fake Brad Pitt, but what a Karma!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDLpCDoaH8o



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