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Old 03-15-2018, 09:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Heat. Is there heat?

Looking for the groups opinion on driving a Karma in winter weather?

I知 not talking a little chilly.
I知 talking about -40c.

I have been speaking with Joe.. ( who is absolutely amazing)
He warns me of the winter downfalls..
but seeking others opinions as well.


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Old 03-16-2018, 08:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Heat in the winter is tough. I have to run my Fisker in "Sport mode" to generate any heat. In addition, my seat warmers shut off after 45 seconds after you click them on.
My 12 volt battery is in good shape but it shuts down the seat warmers. I have to constantly click them on every 45 seconds.
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Old 03-16-2018, 01:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennykustom View Post
Looking for the groups opinion on driving a Karma in winter weather?

I知 not talking a little chilly.
I知 talking about -40c.

I have been speaking with Joe.. ( who is absolutely amazing)
He warns me of the winter downfalls..
but seeking others opinions as well.


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The High Voltage battery on the Karma does not have a heating loop. You will have issues with those types of temperatures.
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Old 03-16-2018, 04:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Note that -40ーC is outside the pack's operating range. The following is from the spec sheet:

Nanophosphateョ Lithium Ion Prismatic Pouch Cell

Operating Temperature -30ーC to 55ーC

Storage Temperature -40ーC to 60ーC
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Old 03-16-2018, 05:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Interesting.
I know I知 not the only Canadian that has wanted one, or owned one.

I know there was a vet from Calgary here.


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Old 03-16-2018, 05:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I wonder if the packs are of different chemistry from the Toyota packs.

My wife had a hybrid Lexus, that would run on full electric, even at those extreme temps.


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Old 03-16-2018, 05:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The Lexus used to use NMH chemistry. More recently, the packs in Toyota cars are Li-Ion.
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jjayjr View Post
Heat in the winter is tough. I have to run my Fisker in "Sport mode" to generate any heat. In addition, my seat warmers shut off after 45 seconds after you click them on.
My 12 volt battery is in good shape but it shuts down the seat warmers. I have to constantly click them on every 45 seconds.
John, your car needs a PTC heat circulator pump. We need to get it in up here and get the Airbag done too. Give me a call to arrange.
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Chemistry isn't main issue, it is the fact that the A123 pack in the Karma does not actively heat the battery pack (only cools it).

Tesla, GM and others actively heat the pack. Operating the battery in those temps will lead to lithium plating and significant voltage sag. It may be possible to mitigate this by running mainly on the ICE in those types of temperatures (but you will still likely have issues).
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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@kenneykustom has told me in a conversation he is a seasoned mechanic. Possibly we can figure out how to install a heating element in the battery coolant circuit like a simple diesel engine block heater and activate the circulation pump if needed. But I bet just a simple inline 110v heater element at the battery inlet hose under the right side being a low point, the convection will easily warm the battery. That system doesn't hold much coolant, less than a gallon.
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