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Old 11-28-2016, 02:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Driving in warm weather vs cold

I live in Atlanta and it's cold here, not freezing, but enough to turn the heat on, seat warmers, and to wish I had a heated steering wheel. What I have noticed is I get far less miles in the cold than I do in normal summer weather.

In the normal summer I would go about 9 miles and use 10-11 EV miles. When I go 9 miles now I use about almost double that. Is this normal for those who have owned the car longer and more experience driving in different climates?

I know to expect less in cold, but how much less is expected?
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Old 11-28-2016, 03:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jomak View Post
I live in Atlanta and it's cold here, not freezing, but enough to turn the heat on, seat warmers, and to wish I had a heated steering wheel. What I have noticed is I get far less miles in the cold than I do in normal summer weather.

In the normal summer I would go about 9 miles and use 10-11 EV miles. When I go 9 miles now I use about almost double that. Is this normal for those who have owned the car longer and more experience driving in different climates?

I know to expect less in cold, but how much less is expected?
I saw the same thing when I was living in New Hampshire, and it got very very cold there. There are a lot of factors in play, including the efficiency of the battery in colder temperatures, and the additional demand for power for heating. If you are calling for cabin heat in EV mode, the heat has to be generated by an electric heater, which is a very inefficient use of stored power. If you stick with the heated seat only, it would probably save you a few electric miles. It's not really worth if for short drives like yours, but if you were driving longer distances and needed cabin heat, one option is to turn on Sport mode just long enough to heat up the engine coolant to the point where the electric heater would not have to be turned on. There was a thread on this started, IIRC, by an owner who lives in Alaska. May be worth a search ....
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Old 11-28-2016, 03:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jomak View Post
I live in Atlanta and it's cold here, not freezing, but enough to turn the heat on, seat warmers, and to wish I had a heated steering wheel. What I have noticed is I get far less miles in the cold than I do in normal summer weather.

In the normal summer I would go about 9 miles and use 10-11 EV miles. When I go 9 miles now I use about almost double that. Is this normal for those who have owned the car longer and more experience driving in different climates?

I know to expect less in cold, but how much less is expected?

Heat can consume up to 6kw/450wh-mi about 12 miles or so

further in cold weather there is voltage drop, the a123 pack does not have active heating (just cooling).

Turn your engine on to preserve the battery and get better/quicker etc heat.
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Old 11-29-2016, 03:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Same here. 10.000 Kilometer in 6 Month start in summer. My way to my shop is 13 Kilometer which dropped exactly on my range at 15 to 25 Degrees Celsius. Now in winter around +5 to to -5 it dropped 22 kilometres for same way. Heater sucks 6000 Watt. The heated seats way lower around 500 watt..My comfort is 22 Celsius in the car. By the way the Fisker heating system works fine. If my battery is full I can't start the engine to make it warm quicker . Is that normal?
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Old 11-29-2016, 06:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Heat can consume up to 6kw/450wh-mi about 12 miles or so

further in cold weather there is voltage drop, the a123 pack does not have active heating (just cooling).

Turn your engine on to preserve the battery and get better/quicker etc heat.
The car will still consume battery in Sport mode until I hit 27 miles. I guess you are saying your less screwed if you turn it to Sport mode to get heat then turn off the heat use the seat warmers and turn Stealth back on?

Anyone have steps if I understand it wrong?

Second, Would EV mode help or any mode you offer @PowerSource?
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Old 11-29-2016, 06:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The car will still consume battery in Sport mode until I hit 27 miles. I guess you are saying your less screwed if you turn it to Sport mode to get heat then turn off the heat use the seat warmers and turn Stealth back on?

Anyone have steps if I understand it wrong?

Second, Would EV mode help or any mode you offer @PowerSource?
The coolant/heater loop when in SPORT mode is different than in STEALTH mode.

The ICE adds additional heat. In EV mode when the ICE is running, you will see similar heater performance to SPORT mode.
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Old 11-29-2016, 07:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jomak View Post
The car will still consume battery in Sport mode until I hit 27 miles. I guess you are saying your less screwed if you turn it to Sport mode to get heat then turn off the heat use the seat warmers and turn Stealth back on?

Anyone have steps if I understand it wrong?

Second, Would EV mode help or any mode you offer @PowerSource?
As I understand it, in Sport mode waste heat from running the ICE is used to warm the fluid reservoir used by the cabin heat much like it is in a conventional ICE car. In the Karma there is a secondary 'electrically expensive' mechanism to warm this reservoir in Stealth mode. The thinking is that using the ICE (Sport mode) just long enough to bring everything up to temperature then switching to Stealth with the heat still on is overall more efficient than Stealth mode alone using electrical heating only. This approach trades a little bit of gasoline for longer overall EV-only range, and also a warmer cabin quicker.

Under any regimen the seat heaters are still a better first-use option, which is why even the rear seats have heaters. Seat heaters are considerably more energy efficient than heating cabin air.

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Old 12-01-2016, 01:55 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Is there a way to program the car to activate the seat heaters while connected to the 230v? Best would be to do this remotely. The Audi folks gave me a small remote control for my pre-heater... and I'm kind of jealous.

The key here would be to get the cabin warm without involving the battery!
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Old 12-01-2016, 02:36 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Is there a way to program the car to activate the seat heaters while connected to the 230v? Best would be to do this remotely. The Audi folks gave me a small remote control for my pre-heater... and I'm kind of jealous.

The key here would be to get the cabin warm without involving the battery!
It's too bad the precondition feature was not enabled in the production Karmas. It would have been nice to have that when I was living in New Hampshire.
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Old 12-01-2016, 02:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Battery versus the cold

In Belgium, it now is freezing every night. My car sleeps outside, but it is under a carport. The winters are not that strong, I think it freezes 10 to 15 times a year. Is that a problem for the high voltage battery? Should I try to cover the car or something...
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