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Old 06-10-2011, 05:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Fisker Karma vs. Tesla Model S

http://www.tesla-buzz.com/forums/

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Today is the 3-year anniversary of my down payment to Fisker and altho delivery is getting closer (I hope), they've let me wait so long that other options are presenting themselves.

Although I have a production slot for the Karma, I'm frustrated by the company's continuing delays, price increases, lack of meaningful customer communication, and lack of any intent to provide financial incentives for those of us with down payments who have waited for years for the Karma. I'm also concerned that lack of attention to these details (start-up or no) is a troubling sign going forward.

I've begun to research the Tesla Model S and find it a reasonably impressive car. I know it's a different animal, true EV, but with a 300 mile range, it becomes very attractive for my driving habits. It's touted as faster than the Karma, has a design that isn't quite as sexy, but is quite beautiful, is less expensive, and is "scheduled" for release only 10 or 11 months after the current delivery date (who knows what the real date will be) for my Karma. Because Tesla is an established company, it's probably more likely that they'll deliver in 2012 as they project. After a three year wait, what's another 12 months?

I'd be curious if anyone else has researched the Model S and what your opinions, pro or con, are.

I haven't pulled the trigger on this as yet, but I'm starting to lean toward Tesla. Everyone should have these problems :)
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Old 06-10-2011, 08:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default RE: Fisker Karma vs. Tesla Model S

I would take any sort of release date with a huge amount of NaCl. As I recall, Tesla didn't exactly hit their targets either even though they started with an existing car shell. The Tesla Model S is a whole new design for Tesla so it is hard to tell how much they can leverage off their experience with the roadster. Also, and this is subjective, but the Tesla Model S looks to my eye like a 3-Series BMW, nowhere near as impressive as the Fisker. But it's good to keep your options open and consider alternatives. I am sticking with Fisker at this point, at least until I have had a chance to test drive the car during the road show.
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Old 06-11-2011, 03:41 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default RE: Fisker Karma vs. Tesla Model S

The Tesls Model S is set for release mid-2012, so 1 year from now. Make that fall 2012 with the delays that are bound to occur. There are already 4500 reservations in place, that is probably the complete production of year 1 (they are saying they will produce 5000 in 2012, do you believe that?). So you are looking at earliest delivery mid-2013, 2 years from now. If you switch you are probably setting yourself for another long, disappoiting wait. Groundhog Day comes to mind.

The Model is faster (compared to the Karma's Stealth-mode) and cheaper, those are strong points. The design is a personal choice. But real range will more likely be 220-250 than 300 miles (if the real range of the Leaf is any indication). Which means the maximum round trip without overnight stay will get you to a spot 120 miles away, and that is stretching (sweating) it. Something to consider if you don't have a second car. My brother has pre-ordered one, but he never goes further than 70-80 miles.
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Old 06-11-2011, 03:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default RE: Fisker Karma vs. Tesla Model S

Fabulist & Dutch,

Thx for the comments. Luckily, the Tesla Model S tour is scheduled to stop in Miami in early August, so I'll get to see the alpha version of the car in person at just about the same time that I'm scheduled to test drive the Karma at my Fisker dealership. That will probably be the decision point for me.

I agree with everything you've said, including the uncertainly of delivery from Tesla (a major question mark and risk). The last thing I want to do is relive the car delivery delays all over again.

SoFla
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Old 06-11-2011, 06:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default RE: Fisker Karma vs. Tesla Model S

I put a deposit down on a Model S when they first became available, #95 in the normal production sequence, that is after all the Roadster prefences and Signature Edition productions. Keep in mind that the $49k after rebate price range is for the 160 mile base model. For the 230 mile and 300 mile ranges tack on an extra 10 and 20 k respectively. Once again, that is probably for base models of those too. I am sure they will do the paint job and interior pricing options just like Fisker did to up the final price.
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Old 06-11-2011, 06:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default RE: Fisker Karma vs. Tesla Model S

I put a deposit down on a Model S when they first became available, #95 in the normal production sequence, that is after all the Roadster prefences and Signature Edition productions. Keep in mind that the $49k after rebate price range is for the 160 mile base model. For the 230 mile and 300 mile ranges tack on an extra 10 and 20 k respectively. Once again, that is probably for base models of those too. I am sure they will do the paint job and interior pricing options just like Fisker did to up the final price.[hr]
Curious to see what the Model S will get, but here is the Roadster's EPA sticker. Where is the Karma's?

http://www.frontsidebus.net/2011/05/26/tesla-roadster-2-5-gets-119-mpge-rating-from-epa-still-as-expensive-as-ever/[hr]
Curious to see what the Model S will get, but here is the Roadster's EPA sticker. Where is the Karma's?

http://www.frontsidebus.net/2011/05/26/tesla-roadster-2-5-gets-119-mpge-rating-from-epa-still-as-expensive-as-ever/
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Old 06-12-2011, 08:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default RE: Fisker Karma vs. Tesla Model S

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabulist
Also, and this is subjective, but the Tesla Model S looks to my eye like a 3-Series BMW, nowhere near as impressive as the Fisker.
Tesla recently updated the look of the Model S, and I think the changes are improvements. Nonetheless, the Karma has it all over the Model S. (In terms of looks I mean.)

Ultimately the question (of "Karma vs Model S"), at least for me, boils down to these three items:
  1. Am I willing to wait an extra year-plus for the S?
  2. Do I want to save some bucks up front?
  3. Do I want electric-only?
The first is an obvious disavantage (to the Model S), the second an obvious advantage, and the third cuts both ways.

There's also more space (for passengers and cargo) in the Model S, but I don't yet know how much more.
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Old 06-13-2011, 01:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default RE: Fisker Karma vs. Tesla Model S

Quote:
Originally Posted by ct-fiskerbuzz
Ultimately the question (of "Karma vs Model S"), at least for me, boils down to these three items:
  1. Am I willing to wait an extra year-plus for the S?
  2. Do I want to save some bucks up front?
  3. Do I want electric-only?
The first is an obvious disavantage (to the Model S), the second an obvious advantage, and the third cuts both ways.

There's also more space (for passengers and cargo) in the Model S, but I don't yet know how much more.
Since none of us has had an opportunity to do a proper test drive of either car, there simply is no data to base a decision on, IMHO. We just have to wait and drive both cars to see what's what.

-- Fab
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Old 06-13-2011, 02:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default RE: Fisker Karma vs. Tesla Model S

Well, for me the Tesla isn't an option because they don't have any dealerships in Texas nor any within a zillion miles of here. I much prefer Fisker's business strategy of opening up as many dealerships via existing dealership networks as possible. Tesla's strategy of owning all of their own stores is a horrible one. It costs too much money for them to operate their own stores that only sell their cars. Fisker is doing it right by going with dealerships that already sell other brands. Offsets most of the operating cost.

-BRian
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Old 06-13-2011, 11:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default RE: Fisker Karma vs. Tesla Model S

Had a down payment on the Karma and have asked for my $ back. We were around # 50. As much as it's gorgeous it's been too long to wait, too many price hikes and disappointed in how crowded it is inside -both front and in the back and now that we heard it driving it is really noisy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ct-fiskerbuzz
....

There's also more space (for passengers and cargo) in the Model S, but I don't yet know how much more.
The Model S has massive amounts of room since batteries are a floorpan and motor is between the back wheels. Tesla is talking interior space in front and back adding up to a minivan interior equivalent.

Still think the Sunset is sexy though!
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